Come to a Book Burning

[sheep79]

Originally Posted by Riverwind

Its really all very simple, In the beginning Man created God in his own image, saw that it was good and he could control others with it as said it was very good.

Like all religious text it has been compromised through history. As for the rest, its window washing, glider and glitz.

If you want the truth, go outside on a clear night away from the light of a city and look up. You will see God out there and realize just how small and insignificant man is.

River

yep and people wonder why I have no 'religious' feelings...Iran Iraq Israel....taliban...osama...etc etc etc...more people have been killed in the name of religion...then all the other wars put together....think Imagine from John Lennon...

[ibnmichael]

Originally Posted by gareth19

But then why privilege the Masoretic text, a creation of Central European Jews of the tenth century CE? It differs significantly from the apparent Hebrew text from which the Septuagint was translated and is missing whole books.

We have the Hebrew text from which the Septuagint was translated ?

Which books are missing

[Rusty Dai]

I own a copy of the KJV and Jerusalem. And a Concordance. Lost that other book in the move, you know the one with several different versions side by side. One day this old mind will remember what it was and maybe go out an buy another.

I prefer the Jersualem Bible. It is a much easier read. I've also had several Pastors tell me it was translated more closely to English from the original texts than any other version.

Also, they said stay away from paraphrased bibles. Paraphrased versions really have the writer's influence and personal misunderstandings. We maybe should not be giving those to children. I firmly believe in marriage equality for all consenting adults. I like the judge that stumped Cooper with, tell me why gay marriage will harm St8s marriage. He didn't know. Chief counsel didn't know. Didn't know the answer to one of the most basic questions. I believe the answer is "because there is no harm, no danger and absolutely no threat to "traditional marriage." The known threats are from within the Str8 marriages, not gay marriages.

I find it really odd that people will scream "Find Jesus," "Follow Jesus" and then quote Leviticus, Paul and other writers found in the Bible to further their own interpretations. And, quite often at the expense of what Jesus really said and did.

The pastor of 13 in NC, I'm assuming he is counted as part of the congregation of 14, is just trying to make a name for himself. He will draw others out of the wood work and his church will grow, for a while.

Too bad it is not a really good foundation. The foundation of hate will collapse sooner or later, especially when the scales fall from their eyes as they did for Paul, no it was Saul really. He was human and was not perfect. He still had his prejudices and they are found in his writings and letters.

The versions of bible and other goodies this NC pastor doesn't like should not be tossed out, but studied and perhaps what is wrong pointed out. Of course that will be too slow to make the church grow, won't it.

[gareth19]

Originally Posted by ibnmichael

We have the Hebrew text from which the Septuagint was translated ?

Which books are missing

We have fragments of it in the Dead Sea Scrolls and we can compare the Greek text of ca. 200 BCE with the 10th century CE Masoretic text and see the differences.

What is missing are the Apocrypha, which were removed from the KJV because these texts appeared only in Greek; most of them now appear at least in fragmentary form in either Hebrew or Aramaic. And because Judith, Esther and all of Daniel is more interesting reading than Leviticus, Numbers or Deuteronomy, there absence in the KJV or the Masoretic text is a shame.

[IbPervert]

Originally Posted by Riverwind

If you want the truth, go outside on a clear night away from the light of a city and look up.

River

When you look up you might just happen to catch site of the great flying spaghetti monster as he travels through space depositing life then leaving it to its own devices!

[ibnmichael]

Originally Posted by Rusty Dai

I own a copy of the KJV and Jerusalem. And a Concordance. Lost that other book in the move, you know the one with several different versions side by side. One day this old mind will remember what it was and maybe go out an buy another.

I prefer the Jersualem Bible. It is a much easier read. I've also had several Pastors tell me it was translated more closely to English from the original texts than any other version.

Also, they said stay away from paraphrased bibles. Paraphrased versions really have the writer's influence and personal misunderstandings. We maybe should not be giving those to children. I firmly believe in marriage equality for all consenting adults. I like the judge that stumped Cooper with, tell me why gay marriage will harm St8s marriage. He didn't know. Chief counsel didn't know. Didn't know the answer to one of the most basic questions. I believe the answer is "because there is no harm, no danger and absolutely no threat to "traditional marriage." The known threats are from within the Str8 marriages, not gay marriages.

I find it really odd that people will scream "Find Jesus," "Follow Jesus" and then quote Leviticus, Paul and other writers found in the Bible to further their own interpretations. And, quite often at the expense of what Jesus really said and did.

The pastor of 13 in NC, I'm assuming he is counted as part of the congregation of 14, is just trying to make a name for himself. He will draw others out of the wood work and his church will grow, for a while.

Too bad it is not a really good foundation. The foundation of hate will collapse sooner or later, especially when the scales fall from their eyes as they did for Paul, no it was Saul really. He was human and was not perfect. He still had his prejudices and they are found in his writings and letters.

The versions of bible and other goodies this NC pastor doesn't like should not be tossed out, but studied and perhaps what is wrong pointed out. Of course that will be too slow to make the church grow, won't it.

The Jerusalem bible is indeed happening. Being a semi-semite, I use the the same published by Koren with the Masoretic text and English side by side. Paraphrased works like the Living Bible, I agree, are largely a waste of time.

My paraphrased translation of a New Testament fragment.

And he said to them...."Dudes! Dont worry about stuff....stuff takes care of itself, can you dig it?" And they dug it well.

[ibnmichael]

Originally Posted by gareth19

We have fragments of it in the Dead Sea Scrolls and we can compare the Greek text of ca. 200 BCE with the 10th century CE Masoretic text and see the differences.

What is missing are the Apocrypha, which were removed from the KJV because these texts appeared only in Greek; most of them now appear at least in fragmentary form in either Hebrew or Aramaic. And because Judith, Esther and all of Daniel is more interesting reading than Leviticus, Numbers or Deuteronomy, there absence in the KJV or the Masoretic text is a shame.

Esther and Daniel are part of the Masoretic text. Judith isn't, because it contained too many anomalies, and thus became part of the apocrypha.

Direct comparison of Hebrew to Hebrew, the Hebrew Dead Sea Scrolls, to the same Hebrew portion of the Masoretic text shows virtually no difference. This is due to the process by which a scroll is copied. There are laws governing this, which I can reproduce if anyone is interested. Its still done today, and I have observed it taking place.

There are, of course major differences between the greek text and the masoretic because the greek is a translation......and not always a very good one.

[jemagirl]

The Bible they say is the word of God, but there are so many versions, each one different from the next. I say man made the ink, the paper and the binding, and has done quite a bit of editing to suit his own taste.

If the bible is the word of God, then which word's are God's words and which ones are man's?

[Misha999]

We're kinda gett'n off topic here.
The question posed was what are these book burners afraid of? They say that the KJV is the 'real' Bible and all others are heretical. If these folks are trying to get closest to an historically "English" version then I think it interesting that they disregard John Wycliffe's English Bible (the first handwritten version) which predates KJV by some 200 years.

The key word in all this is fear. As I said before these people simply can't make that leap of faith and rely on the promises of Christ. The fear of "what if we're wrong" constantly niggles in their hearts.
M

[Riverwind]

Originally Posted by Misha999

We're kinda gett'n off topic here.
The question posed was what are these book burners afraid of? They say that the KJV is the 'real' Bible and all others are heretical. If these folks are trying to get closest to an historically "English" version then I think it interesting that they disregard John Wycliffe's English Bible (the first handwritten version) which predates KJV by some 200 years.

The key word in all this is fear. As I said before these people simply can't make that leap of faith and rely on the promises of Christ. The fear of "what if we're wrong" constantly niggles in their hearts.
M

What if there wrong seems to go without saying.

River

[dev]

Believe it or not, I actually do prefer reading all the poetry and prayers of the KJV better. And if you know all of your old English verb tenses (-eth = 3rd person, est = 2nd person etc.) it's not really that hard at all afterall. It just seems more pleasant to me. As far as the narratives go though I think it is better in present day English.
But I do have a story to relate about having a job (sort of) of driving an old lady to church. One day instead of bringing an English Bible to church (since I do sit and listen to the sermons possibly even more so than the regular parishoners) I brought a Spanish Bible (which I have also read). You know the "Santa Biblia"? I finally persuaded her with the help of the preacher that it didn't say "Satan Bible". And I suppose this could be the very source of the notion that there was a Satanic Bible in existence (before LaVey wrote his).

[A-1]

I have Carlos Santana's autograph.

[Old Greebo]

I'm no expert on the Bible.
But aren't the real 'book burners' the original cardinals who decided which bits of scripture should be included in The Bible, and which should be excluded?
Is the KJV an authorised (then) translation of the entirety of the stuff the cardinals thought was OK? Or was KJ picking and choosing for himself?
Apparently there's a lot more written stuff that dates authentically back to people who knew Jesus. Or to people who knew people who knew Jesus. Or to people who knew people who ..... well, you know.

Isn't the 'real bible' just a collection of writings that happen to fit in with the early Church's view of how things ought to be? So in other words, isn't it just a device to keep people in line?

Oh, and incidentally, has anyone questioned (on the same basis as I question the Bible above) the origins and/or authenticity of the stuff that makes up the Quran?

[dev]

One problem with the King James version is in its use of italics. When that version was first written italics were used for questionable or uncertain translations whereas in today's English italics are used in order to stress a subject. So that now we have a lot of people who are stressing questionable words which were never certain in the first place. The "Old Testament" is merely a translation of all the books of the Hebrews which were compiled by the Jewish elders in Alexandria, Egypt and translated into Greek before the time of Christ. There were also other works which were not included in the "official" compilation which were also translated and/or originally written in Greek and are in a lot of Bibles such as what the Catholics use. The Orthodox also have a few other books too. And about the "New Testament"? Well, I guess I can't know everything. The "Gospel of Q" might actually be the better book to read along with the "Gospel of Thomas".