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Thread: ObamaCare: Pay me to protect you, or I break your legs. (Bobover3 Tribute)

  1. #1
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    ObamaCare: Pay me to protect you, or I break your legs. (Bobover3 Tribute)

    It seems like what the Supreme Court has decided with the 5-4 ruling to uphold ObamaCare as a tax, is saying that the USA is looking at a President who is no better than a school-yard bully.

    That "Tax" is really a shakedown. And we Americans who don't want to pay into the debacle and opt out, will have to shell out 2.5% of our income for nothing in return.


    http://www.aei.org/article/health/he...-on-obamacare/

    The controversial, contradictory and complex ruling on Obamacare
    Thomas P. Miller | The Blaze

    One day later and the Supreme Court’s ruling on ObamaCare doesn’t look any better than it did on Thursday morning when the Court narrowly upheld a health law that Congress never passed. Chief Justice John Roberts performed the legal equivalent of Olympian gymnastics in finding the individual mandate constitutional. But his “majority” 5-4 opinion for the Court is really an unusual majority of “one” that smacks of results-based rewriting of the actual text of the Affordable Care Act (ACA).

    At the start of his opinion that decided the case, the Chief Justice appeared to be against the mandate before he was for it – in terms of constitutional law. He found that the law’s individual mandate was unconstitutional under the power of Congress to regulate interstate commerce, but, surprise, it was a constitutional “tax” after all. Four additional liberal justices were willing to join that decision, while making clear in their concurring opinion that they really believe that Congress could even regulate “inactivity” and compel individuals to enter into commerce.

    “Why should the Chief Justice strive so mightily to hem in Congress’ capacity to meet the new problems arising constantly in our ever-developing economy?” wrote Justice Ginsburg. But she and her three other colleagues agreed to sign on quietly to the “tax” argument for the mandate, in order to save it.

    The other four dissenting justices provided vigorous arguments to the contrary. They insisted that the entire health law should fall, as fatally flawed due both to the unconstitutional mandate and its coercive Medicaid expansion imposed on states. Justices Scalia, Kennedy, Thomas, and Alito stripped bare the pretense that the mandate was a tax rather than a (unconstitutional) penalty. For example, different groups of people are exempted from the mandate’s coverage command itself than those exempted from paying its penalty.

    Chief Justice Roberts did try to close the open-ended commerce clause door to sweeping federal regulatory authority over just about anything. But then opened another door wider under the taxing powers of Congress. His judicial reasoning first carefully showed that the individual mandate was not a “tax” when it came to jurisdictional issues under the Anti-Injunction Act (thereby allowing the Court to decide the case). But, like the Decepticon robot villains in the “Transformers” series of movies, the mandate could be converted into a “tax” for constitutional authority purposes. Just pay no attention to the ACA’s statutory history and language, President Obama’s own words in pushing for the law, or even some earlier legal positions by his attorneys. In most of the lower federal courts that reviewed similar versions of this “tax or penalty” legal ploy, it failed to pass the “straight-face” test.

    The bottom line is that the Chief Justice decided that the “tie” in constitutional law challenges goes to the federal government’s runners, and four other liberal justices were willing to do whatever was necessary to save ObamaCare. The law under the Constitution is, or becomes, whatever five or more justices say it is.

    One might now think of the mandate penalty as an “exit fee” for Americans who wish to opt out of the coverage requirements of ObamaCare. Millions are likely to make that choice, given the sizable gap between the modest penalty amounts and their full costs of mandatory, government-approved coverage. Enforcement of the penalty/tax will be relatively weak, as well. Uninsured or otherwise non-compliant Americans who do not file federal income taxes, or those who do not expect to receive year-end tax refunds, will not spend any time in the IRS penalty box. On the other hand, the federal government may have gained a freer hand to regulate whatever it wants (broccoli, anyone?), as long as it just charges you more if you don’t comply! And Congress apparently won’t even have to admit that the penalty is a “tax” before it votes for it.

    A secondary part of the majority decision (on a 7-2 vote) did limit the health law’s provisions regarding penalties for states that do not cooperate with its proposed expansion of Medicaid in 2014. To update an old Justice Potter Stewart saying about pornography, the Court finally knew it had a case of unconstitutional coercion by the federal government when it saw one (here). This provides some modest, incremental relief for debt-plagued state governments who will be able to just say no to Medicaid expansion, without risking loss of all federal matching funds for their old, pre-expansion Medicaid programs.

    The overall decision to uphold most of the ACA joins a long parade of past disappointments at the Court for judicial conservatives. It may be a controversial, contradictory, and complex ruling, but this represents a major initial legal victory for the Obama administration and other ACA supporters. Opponents cannot afford many more such defeats that are “supposed” to make their political chances stronger this fall. The legal cement for an even larger bureaucratized federal welfare state is beginning to harden.

    Thursday’s ruling also highlights the dangers for opponents who overinvested too narrowly in outsourcing a solution for their health policy problems to the Supreme Court. They have not yet built sufficient political support and attractive legislative proposals to both repeal and replace this unpopular law passed in March 2010. The months ahead between now and November elections await.

    The initial burst of recriminations about the Court ruling, cries for Full Repeal in Congress, and Capitol Hill press releases blaming all current and future health care woes on the Obama administration will not be enough to change the facts on the ground. Most of the health care industry will resume shrugging its shoulders and falling back into line with the political deals it cut with the Obama administration several years ago. (It’s just “business in Washington,” after all).

    The political case for substantial or total repeal will become much stronger where it matters – at the grass roots level beyond the Washington Beltway, and particularly among independent voters this fall — if it finally includes a credible, attractive agenda for “replace” that offers better solutions to chronic health policy problems and improves the lives of average Americans.

    We can afford neither to try to fix a fatally flawed ACA nor just to go back to the pre-2010 status quo. The core issue is really one of power and accountability: Who will get to decide the key issues of how health care is purchased, provided, organized, and overseen?

    Facilitating a more decentralized and market-based alternative to ObamaCare will require a combination of defined contribution financing of taxpayer subsidies (for Medicare, Medicaid, and private health insurance, respectively), and restructuring of the health care safety net (better financed high-risk pools, plus protection against insurance restrictions on pre-existing conditions — for those with continuous insurance coverage). A more competitive health care marketplace should encourage easier entry, more accountability to consumers, and less command and control regulation.

    The courts and politicians may continue to disappoint us. Some critics of the Chief Justice’s surprise decision have gone too Shakespearian in describing this legal tragedy, by asking: “Et tu, John?” But another part of the Julius Caesar play offers better advice: “The fault lies not in our [judicial] stars, but in ourselves, that we are underlings.”

    It’s up to everyone else to reclaim their own roles and responsibilities in fixing what Washington keeps breaking.

    So, one can choose to pay Obama his "exit fee", (seems like a shakedown to me) or face the biggest tax increase in history.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/merrillm...u-s-history/2/

    Is ObamaCare The Largest Tax Increase In U.S. History?

    Supreme Court Chief Justice John Roberts decided to save President Obama’s signature legislation by ruling that the individual mandate requiring Americans to have health coverage or pay a fine is constitutional under the federal government’s taxing power.

    That ruling took most people by surprise, since the Justice Department appears to have thought the “taxing power” argument was the weakest of its three weak justifications. Maybe Roberts has an affinity for weak arguments, because he certainly made a number of them himself in justifying the mandate as a tax.

    When the chief justice and his liberal colleagues consider the mandate a tax, they seem to mean only the penalty a person must pay for not having health insurance. However, the mandate has two parts: the requirement to have coverage and the penalty — er, tax — for not getting it. Why aren’t both considered a tax?

    ABC’s George Stephanopoulos did. When he directly challenged the president on the mandate-as-tax question, he said, “Under this mandate, the government is forcing people to spend money, fining you if you don’t. How is that not a tax?”

    And if both the premium and the penalty are considered a tax, the mandate becomes the largest tax increase in U.S. history. And that doesn’t include all of the other taxes imposed by the legislation.

    The median U.S. family income is about $50,000. Family health coverage can easily run $20,000 a year — and rising quickly. In that scenario, the coverage mandate is essentially a 40 percent tax on that family, which is now required by law to ensure that every family member has qualifying coverage.

    And because the cost of the coverage will be similar even though incomes vary significantly, the lower the income the higher the effective tax rate — in essence, the most regressive tax in U.S. history, too.

    Now, President Obama and his enablers may deny the health insurance premium is a tax. But the bill’s defenders — including Budget Director Peter Orszag, Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius, and the president himself, not to mention Democrats in Congress — also denied the mandate was a tax.

    But when it became useful for the law’s supporters to consider the mandate a tax, they made the mental switcheroo easily. That’s because consistency and truth were not the goal; getting five Supreme Court votes was the only thing that mattered.

    If Roberts had told the liberals on the Court that the price for him signing on to the mandate was to consider both the premiums and the penalty a tax, would any of them have objected? How about the Flip-Flopper in Chief?

    Indeed, several defenders of the legislation pointed out that workers have long been required to pay a 2.9 percent tax on their income, known as the Medicare FICA tax. And, they concluded, if the government can require workers to pay the FICA tax, which functions as a type of health insurance premium, and force them to have Medicare coverage when they turn 65, then the government should be able to require everyone under 65 to have coverage.

    Of course, the architects of Medicare were clear that FICA is a tax, while the architects of ObamaCare were clear that the mandate isn’t a tax. It was only after the constitutional challenges that the Justice Department had to go on a fishing expedition for justifications.

    No Obama administration official or elected Democrat in Congress gave even the slightest consideration to the notion that the individual mandate was unconstitutional. Not one.

    When CNSNews asked Democrats about the provision’s constitutionally, they either dismissed the question — as with Nancy Pelosi’s “Are you serious!?” response — or they mumbled something about people being required to have auto insurance (which is a state, not federal, requirement).

    All of the justifications — the Commerce Clause, the Necessary and Proper Clause, and the tax-authority argument — came after the passage of the legislation. The Justice Department threw everything it could against the wall in the hope that something would stick. And one thing did, to Roberts.

    The irony is that if Chief Justice Roberts had just taken the administration’s primary argument — that the mandate was allowed under the Commerce and/or Necessary and Proper Clauses — it would have been a 5-4 decision striking down the mandate.

    But Roberts went out of his way to salvage something the administration couldn’t. In essence, Roberts reached down and pulled out a drowning man who had gone under for the third time.

    In doing so he has set a terrible precedent. Any politician can now argue that new mandates on the public aren’t a tax, only to decide they are a tax after getting reelected.

    Now the battle moves back to the political stage — though it never really left — as every Republican runs on repeal and replace. ObamaCare is one of the most unpopular pieces of legislation in modern history, with Rasmussen polls consistently showing somewhere between 52 and 58 percent of the public wanting the law repealed.

    What Roberts didn’t have the clarity or gumption to do in the Supreme Court, the voters will have to do — in November.
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  2. #2
    Fully Qualified Member Elizabeth's Avatar
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    Re: ObamaCare: Pay me to protect you, or I break your legs. (Bobover3 Tribute)

    If you don't have kids, you pay a tax penalty. If you don't own a home and pay interest on a loan for it, you pay a tax penalty. If you don't pay your taxes on time, you pay a tax penalty. If you don't buy an electric car, you pay a tax penalty and list goes on and on. The government has long used tax incentives to encourage behavior it wants. Here is the deal, everyone who has insurance right now regardless of if it's private or government has one thing in common. They are paying for all the people who do not have insurance already. People without insurance can not be turned away or refused service because they can not pay.

    So if the 40 million people who do not have insurance get insurance, then no one will be at the emergency room racking up bills for everyone else to pay. Because of the limit on profit and overhead built into the law, this will force premiums down. The idea is, instead of paying after someone is so ill they have to go the emergency room, lets pay the cheaper bill to send them to a doctor who can treat them before their condition gets serious. This will save everyone a lot of money.

    Not only that, if you make 133% of the poverty line, the government will pay for your insurance. If you make up to $92k for a family, the government will give you some money to help you pay for insurance on a sliding scale. How is it paid for? People will have to pay medicare tax on $250,000 of their income instead of the current $106k it is set at now. Why people who make less have to pay on 100% of their income but millions get a cap, has never been clear to me. Also now if someone is treated at a hospital and returns in 24 hours with the same complaint, the hospital can not bill medicare again. Many hospitals pump up income with return visits instead of treating someone just once. And if you have been paying attention to the news, they have been busting one medicare fraud ring after another.

    But here's the deal, it's all just stupid anyway. No one would suggest that a state could not require the same thing. A state can mandate pretty much whatever it wants. That is why every state mandates having automobile insurance and Massachusetts already mandates that everyone buy insurance. Do you think anyone really cares whether or not the federal government is forcing them to buy insurance or the state? If you are a person who can afford health insurance but don't buy it because you think nothing is ever going to happen to you, it's the same as thinking you are never going to get into an accident. The point is, millions of people lose that gamble every year and everyone else has to pay for it. Time for those who can afford it to pay up and it's time for those who can't afford it to be allowed in.

    This law means no one is ever going to have to lose everything they worked their whole lives for, because of unexpected illness. Medical bills are what 80% of bankruptcies are about. If car insurance is important enough to mandate, than health insurance should be more important.

    Elizabeth
    The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen or even touched - they must be felt with the heart - Helen Keller

    Challenge Authority

  3. #3

    Re: ObamaCare: Pay me to protect you, or I break your legs. (Bobover3 Tribute)

    The Affordable Healthcare Act is a Massive Takeover of Healthcare Insurance by the Government.

    Obamacare is only a symptom of the problem. It doesn’t matter how you look at it, the Socialist Obama administration is like a freight train with no brakes moving downhill headed for a certain train wreck at the first inevitable curve. The United States is no longer a rich country. When you don’t’ have the money to finance your activities you have to go out and borrow money. We’re borrowing from the Chinese and others. We’re up to $16 trillion in debt. The problem is that we have no way to pay it back. We are also spending all of our income on the same stupid socialistic nonsense. The blame lies squarely on those whose job it was to avoid the exact situation we find ourselves in, including current Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke and former Chairman Alan Greenspan, tasked with preventing financial meltdowns and keeping the nation’s economy strong through monetary and credit policies. The way that Obama is running the country is idiotic. The downgrade of U.S. debt is inevitable.

    The official unemployment rate of 8.2 percent is not a real number and that the real figure is more likely as high as 21 percent. The data is clear I predict 50% unemployment, a 90% stock market drop, and 100% annual inflation starting in December 2012. You may as well mark my words now, because when it happens I am going to come back and tell you that I told you so. For those of you who are superstitious, the Mayan calendar predicts the end of the world on December 21st, 2012, and that will be about right, right after this IDIOTIC country we call the USA re-elects Obama like the polls are predicting.

    I don’t know where YOU have been but the Middle Class is rapidly becoming EXTINCT in America. Socialism did NOT create the Middle Class and it damn sure WILL NOT SAVE IT! In the last decade a few have made a LOT of money, but the last 10 years have been a "lost decade" for the average American Family. The U.S. stock market is 20% lower than it was 10 years ago. When you add up the wealth that was destroyed by the dot-com crash . . . the housing bubble . . . and now the Great Recession, independent investigations reveal that U.S. households have lost more than $25 trillion over the last 10 years. That's more than $85,000 for every man, woman, and child in this country. The baby boomers alone have lost more than a quarter of their collective net worth. How in the hell do YOU expect them to retire?

    According to Federal Reserve data, the wealthiest 1% of Americans now have a greater net worth than the bottom 90% combined. Since 1979, the average income of the top 1% has increased 275%, while average overall wages are basically unchanged. In the last 10 years, the trend has accelerated even more. Between 2002 and 2006 an astounding 75% of all economic growth was captured by the top 1% of income earners. And while the average 401(k) lost 25% between 2008 and 2009, the wealthiest 400 Americans became $30 billion richer. This disparity in wealth is not because the middle class was less productive. In fact, due to better technology, higher education, and lots of hard work, the productivity and output of the American people have been rising steadily since the 1940s. Since about 1971, the average American family has seen almost no financial benefit from their own rising productivity. As inflation went up faster than wages, we started saving less and borrowing more. The overall stock market was down 20% over the last decade, so a lot of people are fearful. They're playing it safe and holding cash. But that's not nearly as safe as it appears. If you held your money in cash over the last 10 years, you would have lost 35% of your wealth!

    This HAS nothing to do with Democrats OR Republicans...

    So what are YOU going to DO about it? Are you going to re-elect Barak Obama the SOCIALIST or Mitt Romney the Capitalist?

    Are you going to keep Obamacare? Or are you going to see to it that this country has REAL healthcare instead of SOCIALIZED MEDICINE?

    You LIBERALS are MAKING ME SICK!!!




    *******************************


    God, am I EVER missing Bob/3 now!

    Not to mention having some pangs of guilt.



    (A-1 crying like Boehner.)
    Last edited by A-1; 07-01-2012 at 09:07 PM.
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    Re: ObamaCare: Pay me to protect you, or I break your legs. (Bobover3 Tribute)

    Ain't got it, don't want it. That's all I have to say about it. You've got a Chicago mob boss as President. What did you expect?

    Last edited by Paolo; 07-01-2012 at 06:15 PM. Reason: add
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  5. #5

    Re: ObamaCare: Pay me to protect you, or I break your legs. (Bobover3 Tribute)

    Honestly, Americans are so frickin selfish. Taking care of other people is the definition of society. Every other Western nation realizes this. If you don't have kids, you still are responsible for schools. If you don't drive, you still are responsible for roads. And so on.

    Furthermore, the whole point of insurance is that most people pay more than they use, in order to cover the case where they might need a lot of help.

    Lastly, people are proven to be extremely poor at gauging personal risk. You really are not in a position to assess your need for health insurance while you are healthy. Personal risk can only be assessed statistically, at a society level. Furthermore, people who say they "accept" a risk usually mean "I don't think it will happen to me" -- accepting a risk actually means you believe it will happen but you are willing to endure it. Frankly, I don't believe anyone who says "I accept that I might die later because I choose not to have coverage now". Dying of a preventable disease simply due to lack of money is a hideous situation.

    So, if you want to be in society, be a part of it, or leave. Really. I'm willing to help you out instead of letting you beg on a street dying of lack of money, and to hear that some people aren't willing to help me in return is really shocking.

    History has already played out all the situations where society didn't have safety nets. In fact there are many places in the world you can go today that don't have this. The "everyone help themselves" sounds good, but simply doesn't work -- "everyone helps each other" is just so much better.

  6. #6

    Thanks! Re: ObamaCare: Pay me to protect you, or I break your legs. (Bobover3 Tribute)

    Attention...A-1's OVERDUE DISCLAIMER...

    Now PAY Attention...

    This whole thread is a satire...

    A long time ago moi approached me with the prospect of a Bob/3 TRIBUTE post. I was hesitant at first, but when I found this thread I knew that it was time and that I should go ahead and do it as I told moi that I would.

    Moi and I recently had words in P.M. and that is another reason that I made MY post in this thread. I DID NOT put a disclaimer in the post, but it is not the way that I truly feel, although I will admit that I DID gain significant empathy for the views of Bob/3 and for others like him who share his opinions.

    Moreover, as Bob/3 struggles to regain his health and the ability to present his well-thought through arguments here, we ALL need to humble ourselves and appreciate that we are all in this together. Win, lose, sink or swim, we are all in a hell of a lot of trouble.

    While I DO NOT AGREE with the standard fare of the Conservative position, I empathize with that position and I for one am willing to reach across the aisle like Senator Richard Lugar (R) IN did his ENTIRE 36 years as a Senator. He did this with Russia and helped the whole world stay safe from nuclear proliferation from the selling of surplus nuclear weapons. Instead, in many cases, these engines of destruction were dismantled. He did many, many other things that space alone does not allow me to get into here.

    At this time I want to thank moi for insisting that I expand my mind. I wish the same for all of us here. Keep in mind we are all made of the same stuff...

    I miss Bob/3... Get well, my friend, and GODSPEED you back to us!!!




    ...with that being said...


    In my humble opinion, Health Insurance Companies NEEDED to be taken over by the Federal government. They were as corrupt as HELL and they were cherry-picking healthcare organizations throughout America by making the ones that they made the MOST money with IN-NETWORK and the ones that they were NOT making so much MONEY with OUT OF NETWORK.

    FURTHERMORE, any health care organization who was expanding after refusing mergers with BIGGER healthcare organizations were being driven into BANKRUPTCY by these actions. Anthem-Wellpoint (BCBS) in Indianapolis was one of the WORST offenders... This facilitated the repeal of the Mcarran-Ferguson Act for Healthcare insurance companies and that made the whole insurance industry stand up and take notice. We will ALL benefit from the caution that this generates in ALL insurance companies, even those NOT involved in Healthcare.

    Now they MUST serve the public first and pay partial refunds to policyholders INSTEAD of exorbitant dividends to CEO's CFO's and stock holders...

    Justice Roberts knew of this, I am sure...
    Last edited by A-1; 07-02-2012 at 06:21 AM. Reason: "and take notice" NOT "ant take notice"
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  7. #7
    Nutless Since December 17, 2005 Losethem's Avatar
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    Re: ObamaCare: Pay me to protect you, or I break your legs. (Bobover3 Tribute)

    I'd much rather have a community organizer than a robber baron for President. Just sayin'...

    --LT
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  8. #8
    Fully Qualified Member Elizabeth's Avatar
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    Re: ObamaCare: Pay me to protect you, or I break your legs. (Bobover3 Tribute)

    Quote Originally Posted by A-1 View Post
    The Affordable Healthcare Act is a Massive Takeover of Healthcare Insurance by the Government.

    Obamacare is only a symptom of the problem. It doesn’t matter how you look at it, the Socialist Obama administration is like a freight train with no brakes moving downhill headed for a certain train wreck at the first inevitable curve. The United States is no longer a rich country. When you don’t’ have the money to finance your activities you have to go out and borrow money. We’re borrowing from the Chinese and others. We’re up to $16 trillion in debt. The problem is that we have no way to pay it back. We are also spending all of our income on the same stupid socialistic nonsense. The blame lies squarely on those whose job it was to avoid the exact situation we find ourselves in, including current Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke and former Chairman Alan Greenspan, tasked with preventing financial meltdowns and keeping the nation’s economy strong through monetary and credit policies. The way that Obama is running the country is idiotic. The downgrade of U.S. debt is inevitable.

    The official unemployment rate of 8.2 percent is not a real number and that the real figure is more likely as high as 21 percent. The data is clear I predict 50% unemployment, a 90% stock market drop, and 100% annual inflation starting in December 2012. You may as well mark my words now, because when it happens I am going to come back and tell you that I told you so. For those of you who are superstitious, the Mayan calendar predicts the end of the world on December 21st, 2012, and that will be about right, right after this IDIOTIC country we call the USA re-elects Obama like the polls are predicting.

    I don’t know where YOU have been but the Middle Class is rapidly becoming EXTINCT in America. Socialism did NOT create the Middle Class and it damn sure WILL NOT SAVE IT! In the last decade a few have made a LOT of money, but the last 10 years have been a "lost decade" for the average American Family. The U.S. stock market is 20% lower than it was 10 years ago. When you add up the wealth that was destroyed by the dot-com crash . . . the housing bubble . . . and now the Great Recession, independent investigations reveal that U.S. households have lost more than $25 trillion over the last 10 years. That's more than $85,000 for every man, woman, and child in this country. The baby boomers alone have lost more than a quarter of their collective net worth. How in the hell do YOU expect them to retire?

    According to Federal Reserve data, the wealthiest 1% of Americans now have a greater net worth than the bottom 90% combined. Since 1979, the average income of the top 1% has increased 275%, while average overall wages are basically unchanged. In the last 10 years, the trend has accelerated even more. Between 2002 and 2006 an astounding 75% of all economic growth was captured by the top 1% of income earners. And while the average 401(k) lost 25% between 2008 and 2009, the wealthiest 400 Americans became $30 billion richer. This disparity in wealth is not because the middle class was less productive. In fact, due to better technology, higher education, and lots of hard work, the productivity and output of the American people have been rising steadily since the 1940s. Since about 1971, the average American family has seen almost no financial benefit from their own rising productivity. As inflation went up faster than wages, we started saving less and borrowing more. The overall stock market was down 20% over the last decade, so a lot of people are fearful. They're playing it safe and holding cash. But that's not nearly as safe as it appears. If you held your money in cash over the last 10 years, you would have lost 35% of your wealth!

    This HAS nothing to do with Democrats OR Republicans...

    So what are YOU going to DO about it? Are you going to re-elect Barak Obama the SOCIALIST or Mitt Romney the Capitalist?

    Are you going to keep Obamacare? Or are you going to see to it that this country has REAL healthcare instead of SOCIALIZED MEDICINE?

    You LIBERALS are MAKING ME SICK!!!




    *******************************


    God, am I EVER missing Bob/3 now!

    Not to mention having some pangs of guilt.



    (A-1 crying like Boehner.)
    This is a nice propaganda piece, but it's not founded in reality. First the big lie. That it's a takeover of healthcare. In fact it all stays in the private market. For some stupid reason having a middleman that does nothing, the insurance companies, is somehow better that not having them. Although Republicans don't say how that is. The truth is, if you already have insurance the only thing you are going to notice is lower rates and rebates if your insurance company overcharged you. So what exactly is taken over? It's nonsense. Right now insurance companies regularly deny coverage to people in contradiction to what their doctors want. They have no problem getting between you and your doctor.

    But not only that, Medicare, which really is government healthcare is loved by those on it. No one wants to get rid of it, except rich people who want to pay less tax, no matter who it hurts. And lastly, the government can regulate any industry it wants, and tell them what they can and can't do. The abuse of insurance companies and the healthcare industry at large has led to this. The wealthiest country on the planet, but the greedy don't want to even give the poor healthcare.

    Elizabeth
    The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen or even touched - they must be felt with the heart - Helen Keller

    Challenge Authority

  9. #9

    Re: ObamaCare: Pay me to protect you, or I break your legs. (Bobover3 Tribute)

    Quote Originally Posted by Elizabeth View Post
    This is a nice propaganda piece, but it's not founded in reality. First the big lie. That it's a takeover of healthcare. In fact it all stays in the private market. For some stupid reason having a middleman that does nothing, the insurance companies, is somehow better that not having them. Although Republicans don't say how that is. The truth is, if you already have insurance the only thing you are going to notice is lower rates and rebates if your insurance company overcharged you. So what exactly is taken over? It's nonsense. Right now insurance companies regularly deny coverage to people in contradiction to what their doctors want. They have no problem getting between you and your doctor.

    But not only that, Medicare, which really is government healthcare is loved by those on it. No one wants to get rid of it, except rich people who want to pay less tax, no matter who it hurts. And lastly, the government can regulate any industry it wants, and tell them what they can and can't do. The abuse of insurance companies and the healthcare industry at large has led to this. The wealthiest country on the planet, but the greedy don't want to even give the poor healthcare.

    Elizabeth
    Elizabeth...

    Let us NOT forget the label of UNCONSTITUTIONAL that they have pinned on Social Security. You would have to be a friggin' IDIOT to vote for a Republican this fall if you are anywhere even close to retirement, let alone vote for one IF YOU ARE ALREADY ON SOCIAL SECURITY...

    Nevertheless, some people on Social Security WILL NOT VOTE FOR OBAMA BECAUSE HE IS BLACK AND BECAUSE FOX NEWS AND THE IDIOTS THEREOF HAVE LABELLED HIM A SOCIALIST.

    ...THEY ALSO SPOUT THE LIE THAT HS IS DESTROYING MEDICARE CONTINUOUSLY...

    ...NOT TO MENTION THE BIRTHERS...
    A-1
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  10. #10
    Am I banned? Eeeek!!! moi621's Avatar
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    Cool Re: ObamaCare: Pay me to protect you, or I break your legs. (Bobover3 Tribute)

    There have been some great Bobover3-esque uploads.
    Unfortunately, some even the authors loose sight this is a tribute thread to Bobover3 in their later uploads.

    I really admire the creativity of writing in his shoes without cheap shots.
    I wish I could play but, I have trouble enough writing straight.
    May I suggest; in the spirit of this thread - don't discuss Liberal Truths,
    try out Bobover3 the previous Bobover3-esque upload.
    How far will the groups creativity allow such to go?
    Can you out right wing, with class - not FOX, the previous upload as if it were Bob3?

    Sincerely thank you to the participants. I really enjoyed it. I am sure he will too.
    Maybe some of you should try your hand at right wing commentary for a living.

    Moi

  11. #11
    New Story Editor Cainanite's Avatar
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    Re: ObamaCare: Pay me to protect you, or I break your legs. (Bobover3 Tribute)

    I've been reading the responses to this thread, and already I am seeing a common theme. Most of the defenders of this Social experiment have been denouncing those big insurance companies as nothing more than middle men, out for profit. Well that is exactly what ObamaCare is going to relegate them to.

    Pre-ObamaCare, who do you think were the great innovators in new treatments? Who do you think championed experimental medicines and surgeries that now save thousands of lives? It was those same "heartless" Insurance companies.

    Under the free-market system there were incentives for Health Care providers to find new treatments. New treatments that worked better, saved more people, and cost less. Certain HMOs could attract their target customers by the treatments they offered, and this kept the competition fierce and it was the patients that benefited.

    Now under ObamaCare, they have to reduce their costs, which means no more research and development. It means they have to treat the illnesses in the way the government wants them to, and nothing else. New and/or promising treatments be damned. You get what you get and nothing more.

    Thanks to ObamaCare the consumer will no longer have the choice to seek a better treatment or a better health care provider. Thanks to Obama, some of the worlds greatest innovations will be silenced and buried.

    What health provider is going to invest in a grand experiment to save lives, when they only get paid the same government mandated amount for treating your illness? Will their costs for developing a new treatment be absorbed by ObamaCare? I think not.

    All the insurance and health provider institutions have left is to be an inefficient middle-man. And middle men have never been on the cutting edge. They only go with the flow.

    So for those with Liberal leaning, you've created your own monster. You've created the useless middle-men of your own arguments, and in doing so, you've ensured the stagnation of our nation's medical forefront.
    "Stories are living and dynamic. Stories exist to be exchanged. They are the currency of Human Growth."
    -Jean Houston

    New eunuch stories can be submitted to eafictionarchive (at) gmail (dot) com

  12. #12
    Finally rid of natural T.
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    Re: ObamaCare: Pay me to protect you, or I break your legs. (Bobover3 Tribute)

    One only needs to look at the health care ratings by the World Health Organization to know that France had best overall care, and least cost per person.
    United States was not even in the top 10.

    As it was explained to me, the "tax" is intended to provide individuals who do not buy health insurance (for whatever reason) with hospital emergency care.
    As it is now, taxpayers foot the bill for all of the people who don't have insurance, go to emergency, and can't pay their bills.

    In the future, those taxpayers who don't have insurance will, through their taxes, pay for hospital emergency care, as a kind of "Group Plan".
    The uninsured group, who gets "free" emergency hospital care.

    All I know is that now insurance companies can not lock you out for pre-existing conditions, can't cancel you because of lots of claims, can't raise your rate because of lots of claims, and must charge the same for men and women.

    It's an odd concept, almost forcing everyone to buy health insurance.
    There is no requirement that we all buy life insurance.
    But if you own a home, the mortgage company requires you to buy home insurance.
    If you own a car, most states require you to buy auto insurance.
    Given the cost of medical care, it only makes sense to buy health insurance, budget for it, just the price of living.

    Finally, if one chooses to go uninsured, there is NO penalty for NOT paying the tax.

    So all the whining about the health care law is just so much dribble.

    Now, let's get back to "It's the economy", and "Jobs, Jobs, Jobs".

  13. #13

    Re: ObamaCare: Pay me to protect you, or I break your legs. (Bobover3 Tribute)

    Elizabeth had it right. What is the problem? The detractors from ObamaCare seem to be thinking under the delusion that this is somehow a new tax, or a new cost they will have to absorb. The reality is, we (the general taxpayer) were paying for indigent care ANYWAYS! And we were doing it in the most costly, way possible, as those conditions became acute or chronic rather than when they are cheaply and easily treated. Ever been to a county hospital, or ANY Emergency Room? That's been national health cares for decades in this country. Stupid, expensive, pathetic, and inefficient. Is all that's happened is, finally a politician has pushed through a change that will make things better, for all of us, those using the services and those of us paying for them.

  14. #14

    Re: ObamaCare: Pay me to protect you, or I break your legs. (Bobover3 Tribute)

    In most cases i saw that the political case for substantial or total repeal will become much stronger where it matters – at the grass roots level beyond the Washington Beltway, and particularly among independent voters this fall — if it finally includes a credible, attractive agenda for “replace” that offers better solutions to chronic health policy problems and improves the lives of average Americans.

  15. #15
    The Rest of the Story Riverwind's Avatar
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    Re: ObamaCare: Pay me to protect you, or I break your legs. (Bobover3 Tribute)

    I look at it this way, the republicans who can't stand this bill have been talking about how they would do it, however over the last 32 years, many of which they had both houses and the presidency they have done nothing, which is exactly what they will do if they get this repealed, NOTHING. As the saying goes, talk is cheep. Republicans will do nothing because they have never liked any social program no matter what, and any health care bill would fall under that so never look to republicans to give you something better.

    Having said that, both sides will see problems with this bill as it gets going, and changes will be made and that is the way it should be, improve what you have.


    River
    He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security.

    Your representative owes you, not his industry only, but his judgment; and he betrays instead of serving you if he sacrifices it to your opinion.
    Edmund Burke

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