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Thread: Emergencies declared at 5 Japan nuclear reactors

  1. #1
    I really do look like my avatar Dave's Avatar
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    Emergencies declared at 5 Japan nuclear reactors

    >>This is the stuff that nightmares are made from and this is real.
    >>I do not want to say what I think is going to happen. It's too cruel and cynical.
    >>This is the reason I don't support nuclear power.
    >>

    Emergencies declared at 5 Japan nuclear reactors
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42025882...s-asiapacific/

    TOKYO — Japan declared states of emergency for five nuclear reactors at two power plants after the units lost cooling ability in the aftermath of Friday's powerful earthquake. Thousands of residents were evacuated as workers struggled to get the reactors under control to prevent meltdowns.

    Operators at the Fukushima Daiichi plant's Unit 1 scrambled ferociously to tamp down heat and pressure inside the reactor after the 8.9 magnitude quake and the tsunami that followed cut off electricity to the site and disabled emergency generators, knocking out the main cooling system.
    Story: How a nuclear plant works

    Some 3,000 people within two miles (three kilometers) of the plant were urged to leave their homes, but the evacuation zone was more than tripled to 6.2 miles (10 kilometers) after authorities detected eight times the normal radiation levels outside the facility and 1,000 times normal inside Unit 1's control room.

    The government declared a state of emergency at the Daiichi unit — the first at a nuclear plant in Japan's history. But hours later, the Tokyo Electric Power Co., which operates the six-reactor Daiichi site, announced that it had lost cooling ability at a second reactor there and three units at its nearby Fukushima Daini site.

    The government quickly declared states of emergency for those units, too, and thousands of residents near Fukushima Daini also were told to leave.

    Japan's nuclear safety agency said the situation was most dire at Fukushima Daiichi's Unit 1, where pressure had risen to twice what is consider the normal level. The International Atomic Energy Agency said in a statement that diesel generators that normally would have kept cooling systems running at Fukushima Daiichi had been disabled by tsunami flooding.

    Officials at the Daiichi facility began venting radioactive vapors from the unit to relieve pressure inside the reactor case. The loss of electricity had delayed that effort for several hours.

    Plant workers there labored to cool down the reactor core, but there was no prospect for immediate success. They were temporarily cooling the reactor with a secondary system, but it wasn't working as well as the primary one, according to Yuji Kakizaki, an official at the Japanese nuclear safety agency.

    TEPCO said the boiling water reactors shut down at about 2:46 p.m. local time following the earthquake due to the loss of offsite power and the malfunction of one of two off-site power systems. That triggered emergency diesel generators to startup and provide backup power for plant systems.
    More from Open Channel blog: 2007 Japan quake was wake-up call on nuclear safety

    About an hour after the plant shut down, however, the emergency diesel generators stopped, leaving the units with no power for important cooling functions.

    Nuclear plants need power to operate motors, valves and instruments that control the systems that provide cooling water to the radioactive core.

    The race to restore the reactors’ cooling systems before the radioactive fuel was damaged sent ripples of concern across Pacific, where scientists on both sides of the U.S. debate over the safety of nuclear power acknowledged that the company was facing a serious situation.

    Edwin Lyman, a senior scientist with the Union of Concerned Scientists, which opposes nuclear energy, told msnbc.com that TEPCO was facing a potential catastrophe.

    'It's just as bad as it sounds'

    “It’s just as bad as it sounds,” he said. “What they have not been able to do is restore cooling of the radioactive core to prevent overheating and that’s causing a variety of problems, including a rise in temperature and pressure with the containment (buildings).

    “What’s critical is, are they able to restore cooling and prevent fuel damage? If the fuel starts to get damaged, eventually it will melt through the reactor vessel and drop to the floor of the containment building,” raising the odds that highly radioactive materials could be released into the environment.

    But Steve Kerekes, spokesman for the U.S.-based Nuclear Energy Institute, said that while the situation was serious, a meltdown remains unlikely and, even if it occurred would not necessarily pose a threat to public health and safety.

    “Obviously that wouldn’t be a good thing, but at Three Mile Island about half the core melted and, at the end of the day … there were no adverse impacts to the public,” he said.

    Experts also downplayed the seriousness of the trace levels of radiation detected at the Fukushima Daiichi plant.

    Japan’s Asahi Shimbum newspaper reported that radiation levels per hour in the area near the front entrance of the No. 1 Fukushima plant reached 0.59 micro Sievert, which is eight times the normal levels. The central control room of the reactor recorded radiation levels 1,000 times the normal level, which would be approximately 70 microsieverts per hour, or 7 millirems, according to calculations by msnbc.com.

    Generally it would take much higher levels of outside exposure to cause health problems in humans. Radiation exposure is often measured in units called “millirem,” which is 1/1000 of a rem. The average American is exposed to about 620 millirem each year, with about half from natural sources and half from manmade sources, according to the Nuclear Regulatory Commission.

    Exposures of less than 50 millirem typically produce changes in blood chemistry, but no symptoms, according to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.

    By comparison, normal exposure rates range from approximately 0.03 microsieverts per hour to 0.23 microsieverts per hour in La Paz, Bolivia, the highest city in the world.

    Average U.S. exposure to all sources of radiation is 360 millirems per year, with 300 millirems from natural sources. A chest X-ray results in an exposure of about 8 to 10 millirems per film. A cross-country airplane flight results in a dose of 4 millirems.

    Dr. Irwin Redlener, a pediatrician who runs a disaster preparedness institute at Columbia University, said the reported level of radiation outside the plant would not pose an immediate danger, though it could lift the rate of thyroid cancer in a population over time.

    However, he called the reported level inside the plant extraordinarily high, raising a concern about acute health effects. "I would personally absolutely not want to be inside," he said.

    While the condition of the reactor cores was of utmost concern, Tokyo Electric Power Co. also warned of power shortages and an "extremely challenging situation in power supply for a while."

    The Daiichi site is located in Onahama city, about 170 miles (270 kilometers) northeast of Tokyo. The 460-megawatt Unit 1 began operating in 1971 and is the oldest at the site. It is a boiling water reactor that drives the turbine with radioactive water, unlike pressurized water reactors usually found in the United States. Japanese regulators decided in February to allow it to run another 10 years.

    U.S. President Barack Obama said he spoke with Japanese Prime Minister Naoto Kan earlier Friday, and that the Japanese leader told him there were no radiation leaks from Japan's nuclear power plants.

    "Right now our Department of Energy folks are in direct contact with their counterparts in Japan and are closely monitoring the situation," a senior administration official who handles nuclear issues told NBC News. "So far the government of Japan has not asked for any specific assistance with regard to the nuclear plant, but DOE and other U.S. government agencies are assessing the role they could play in any response and stand by to assist if asked."

    Japan has a "tremendous amount of technical capability and resources" to respond to the issue themselves for now, sources told NBC News.

    Meanwhile, new power supply cars to provide emergency electricity for systems that failed at the Fukushima-Daiichi plant have arrived there, the World Nuclear Association said.

    "The World Nuclear Association understands that three to four power supply cars have arrived and that additional power modules are being prepared for connection to provide power for the energy cooling system," said Jeremy Gordon, analyst at the London-based WNA.

    The cables were being set up to supply emergency power. Other power modules were in transit by air, WNA added on its website.

    'Stages away from Three Mile Island'
    The cooling problems at the Japanese plant raised fears of a repeat of 1979's Three Mile Island accident, the most serious in the history of the U.S. nuclear power industry. But experts said the situation in Japan was nowhere near as serious.

    Equipment malfunctions, design problems and human error led to a partial meltdown of the reactor core at the Three Mile Island plant, but only minute amounts of dangerous radioactive gases were released.

    "The situation is still several stages away from Three Mile Island when the reactor container ceased to function as it should," said Tomoko Murakami, leader of the nuclear energy group at Japan's Institute of Energy Economics.

    The Fukushima nuclear plant, the site of a coolant failure after Friday's quake, is pictured in a 2008 file photo.

    Toshiaki Sakai, director of the Japan Atomic Industrial Forum International Cooperation Center, said nuclear power companies around the globe have since implemented over 53 safety improvements to avert a repeat.

    The International Atomic Energy Agency estimates that around 20 percent of nuclear reactors around the world are currently operating in areas of significant seismic activity.

    The IAEA said the sector began putting more emphasis on external hazards after an earthquake hit TEPCO's Kashiwazaki-Kariwa plant in July 2007, until then the largest to ever affect a nuclear facility.

    When the earthquake hit the Kashiwazaki-Kariwa nuclear power plant, four reactors shut down automatically. Water containing radioactive material was released into the sea, but without an adverse effect on human health or the environment, it said.

    Japan's nuclear power sector produces about 30 percent of the country's electricity and has been rocked periodically over the past decade by safety concerns. Many reactors are located in earthquake-prone zones such as northeastern Fukushima prefecture and Fukui prefecture on the Japanese coast.
    “They also call it the Winged Isle. Some say it is because the island, if seen from above, would look like butterfly wings. And I do not know the truth of it.” Then, “ ‘And what is truth?’ said jesting Pilate.” From: The Truth Is A Cave In The Black Mountains by Neil Gaiman.

  2. #2

    Re: Emergencies declared at 5 Japan nuclear reactors

    O.K., Dave. Get the knot out of your boxers...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    >>This is the stuff that nightmares are made from and this is real.
    >>I do not want to say what I think is going to happen. It's too cruel and cynical.
    >>This is the reason I don't support nuclear power.
    >>
    Honestly, YOU are such a Drama Queen...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Emergencies declared at 5 Japan nuclear reactors
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42025882...s-asiapacific/

    TOKYO — Japan declared states of emergency for five nuclear reactors at two power plants after the units lost cooling ability in the aftermath of Friday's powerful earthquake. Thousands of residents were evacuated as workers struggled to get the reactors under control to prevent meltdowns.

    Operators at the Fukushima Daiichi plant's Unit 1 scrambled ferociously to tamp down heat and pressure inside the reactor after the 8.9 magnitude quake and the tsunami that followed cut off electricity to the site and disabled emergency generators, knocking out the main cooling system.
    Story: How a nuclear plant works

    Some 3,000 people within two miles (three kilometers) of the plant were urged to leave their homes, but the evacuation zone was more than tripled to 6.2 miles (10 kilometers) after authorities detected eight times the normal radiation levels outside the facility and 1,000 times normal inside Unit 1's control room.

    The government declared a state of emergency at the Daiichi unit — the first at a nuclear plant in Japan's history. But hours later, the Tokyo Electric Power Co., which operates the six-reactor Daiichi site, announced that it had lost cooling ability at a second reactor there and three units at its nearby Fukushima Daini site.

    The government quickly declared states of emergency for those units, too, and thousands of residents near Fukushima Daini also were told to leave.

    Japan's nuclear safety agency said the situation was most dire at Fukushima Daiichi's Unit 1, where pressure had risen to twice what is consider the normal level. The International Atomic Energy Agency said in a statement that diesel generators that normally would have kept cooling systems running at Fukushima Daiichi had been disabled by tsunami flooding.

    Officials at the Daiichi facility began venting radioactive vapors from the unit to relieve pressure inside the reactor case. The loss of electricity had delayed that effort for several hours.

    Plant workers there labored to cool down the reactor core, but there was no prospect for immediate success. They were temporarily cooling the reactor with a secondary system, but it wasn't working as well as the primary one, according to Yuji Kakizaki, an official at the Japanese nuclear safety agency.

    TEPCO said the boiling water reactors shut down at about 2:46 p.m. local time following the earthquake due to the loss of offsite power and the malfunction of one of two off-site power systems. That triggered emergency diesel generators to startup and provide backup power for plant systems.
    More from Open Channel blog: 2007 Japan quake was wake-up call on nuclear safety

    About an hour after the plant shut down, however, the emergency diesel generators stopped, leaving the units with no power for important cooling functions.

    Nuclear plants need power to operate motors, valves and instruments that control the systems that provide cooling water to the radioactive core.

    The race to restore the reactors’ cooling systems before the radioactive fuel was damaged sent ripples of concern across Pacific, where scientists on both sides of the U.S. debate over the safety of nuclear power acknowledged that the company was facing a serious situation.

    Edwin Lyman, a senior scientist with the Union of Concerned Scientists, which opposes nuclear energy, told msnbc.com that TEPCO was facing a potential catastrophe.
    What would you EXPECT them to say? Do you expect them to say that Nuclear Power is safe?


    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    'It's just as bad as it sounds'
    “It’s just as bad as it sounds,” he said. “What they have not been able to do is restore cooling of the radioactive core to prevent overheating and that’s causing a variety of problems, including a rise in temperature and pressure with the containment (buildings).

    “What’s critical is, are they able to restore cooling and prevent fuel damage? If the fuel starts to get damaged, eventually it will melt through the reactor vessel and drop to the floor of the containment building,” raising the odds that highly radioactive materials could be released into the environment.

    But Steve Kerekes, spokesman for the U.S.-based Nuclear Energy Institute, said that while the situation was serious, a meltdown remains unlikely and, even if it occurred would not necessarily pose a threat to public health and safety.
    After Chernobyl, nuclear power plants were designed so that they shut down automatically. The problem is, the residual heat has to be handled and apparently that cooling system needs generators that are not working at the moment. Nuclear Power plants all have residual backup systems So far, everything seems to be working and it has been contained by the second safety feature of probably many.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post

    “Obviously that wouldn’t be a good thing, but at Three Mile Island about half the core melted and, at the end of the day … there were no adverse impacts to the public,” he said.

    Experts also downplayed the seriousness of the trace levels of radiation detected at the Fukushima Daiichi plant.
    O.K. 1 Sievert = 100 REM OR. 0.01 Sievert = 1 Rem

    1 microsievert = 0.000001 sievert.

    SO 0.59 microsieverts is 0.00000059 sieverts. Which is 0.059 millirems.

    Maximum permissible dose for radiation workers is set at 1,250 millirems per quarter according to the International Committee on Radiation Protection (ICRP). Or, in other words, it takes 1,250 millirems ina 90 day period to cause a risk that is higher than a control group that received NO radiation at all. The MPD for 1 year is 5 Rem or 5,000 millirem.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Japan’s Asahi Shimbum newspaper reported that radiation levels per hour in the area near the front entrance of the No. 1 Fukushima plant reached 0.59 micro Sievert, which is eight times the normal levels. The central control room of the reactor recorded radiation levels 1,000 times the normal level, which would be approximately 70 microsieverts per hour, or 7 millirems, according to calculations by msnbc.com.
    Even at this level of exposure you would have to be in the control room over 178.57 hours to exceed a maximum permissible dose for a Radiation worker for a 90 day period. It takes
    100 REM (that is 100,000 milliREM) to cause a lowering of the blood count in a healthy adult. You would have to LIVE in that control room for a over WEEK, that is, 24-7 before you would get over your maximum permissible dose. So 8 hour shifts for several weeks is not going to hurt you.

    If you read below you will find out that every living thing receives
    310 millirem each year from background sources alone.



    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Generally it would take much higher levels of outside exposure to cause health problems in humans. Radiation exposure is often measured in units called “millirem,” which is 1/1000 of a rem. The average American is exposed to about 620 millirem each year, with about half from natural sources and half from manmade sources, according to the Nuclear Regulatory Commission.

    Exposures of less than 50 millirem typically produce changes in blood chemistry, but no symptoms, according to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.
    That statement by the EPA is NOT supported by research. If it were what you are saying is that the 320 millirem that we get from Earth and outer space sources is DANGEROUS? No, seriously I have outlined it in RED above. Go look. The EPA is SO FULL OF SHIT...they belong in the SHITTY TOILET THREAD.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    By comparison, normal exposure rates range from approximately 0.03 microsieverts per hour to 0.23 microsieverts per hour in La Paz, Bolivia, the highest city in the world.
    The reason why they keep switching to microsieverts is to CONFUSE the READER. A microsievert is about 1/10 of a millirem. So the statement above should read 0.003 millirem and 0.023 millirem. Confusing, isn't it?


    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Average U.S. exposure to all sources of radiation is 360 millirems per year, with 300 millirems from natural sources. A chest X-ray results in an exposure of about 8 to 10 millirems per film. A cross-country airplane flight results in a dose of 4 millirems.
    That may have been the case when they were using film, but it is NOT the case today. The doses are higher because they no longer use film.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Dr. Irwin Redlener, a pediatrician who runs a disaster preparedness institute at Columbia University, said the reported level of radiation outside the plant would not pose an immediate danger, though it could lift the rate of thyroid cancer in a population over time.

    However, he called the reported level inside the plant extraordinarily high, raising a concern about acute health effects. "I would personally absolutely not want to be inside," he said.
    "Extraordinarily high" compared to WHAT? He doesn't know what the HELL he is talking about so I am not surprised that he would not want to be inside the place. The threat for thyroid cancer comes from I-131, a Gamma emitter with a half life of about 8 days. The real problem is Radium with a half life of 1,620 years which is also a Gamma emitter. If the radiation is contained, (and since they already discharged radioactive steam it isn't) there is no threat. The more that is released, the higher the threat. If the core goes, then Uranium-238, Plutonium-239 and other long-lived isotopes with half lives over 80,000 years are harmfully radioactive for a long, long time.

    That is what scares Dave, but that is NOT going to happen.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    While the condition of the reactor cores was of utmost concern, Tokyo Electric Power Co. also warned of power shortages and an "extremely challenging situation in power supply for a while."

    The Daiichi site is located in Onahama city, about 170 miles (270 kilometers) northeast of Tokyo. The 460-megawatt Unit 1 began operating in 1971 and is the oldest at the site. It is a boiling water reactor that drives the turbine with radioactive water, unlike pressurized water reactors usually found in the United States. Japanese regulators decided in February to allow it to run another 10 years.

    U.S. President Barack Obama said he spoke with Japanese Prime Minister Naoto Kan earlier Friday, and that the Japanese leader told him there were no radiation leaks from Japan's nuclear power plants.

    "Right now our Department of Energy folks are in direct contact with their counterparts in Japan and are closely monitoring the situation," a senior administration official who handles nuclear issues told NBC News. "So far the government of Japan has not asked for any specific assistance with regard to the nuclear plant, but DOE and other U.S. government agencies are assessing the role they could play in any response and stand by to assist if asked."

    Japan has a "tremendous amount of technical capability and resources" to respond to the issue themselves for now, sources told NBC News.

    Meanwhile, new power supply cars to provide emergency electricity for systems that failed at the Fukushima-Daiichi plant have arrived there, the World Nuclear Association said.

    "The World Nuclear Association understands that three to four power supply cars have arrived and that additional power modules are being prepared for connection to provide power for the energy cooling system," said Jeremy Gordon, analyst at the London-based WNA.

    The cables were being set up to supply emergency power. Other power modules were in transit by air, WNA added on its website.
    Run a cable from a docked nuclear submarine and you would have enough electricity to power the pumps.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    'Stages away from Three Mile Island'
    The cooling problems at the Japanese plant raised fears of a repeat of 1979's Three Mile Island accident, the most serious in the history of the U.S. nuclear power industry. But experts said the situation in Japan was nowhere near as serious.

    Equipment malfunctions, design problems and human error led to a partial meltdown of the reactor core at the Three Mile Island plant, but only minute amounts of dangerous radioactive gases were released.

    "The situation is still several stages away from Three Mile Island when the reactor container ceased to function as it should," said Tomoko Murakami, leader of the nuclear energy group at Japan's Institute of Energy Economics.

    The Fukushima nuclear plant, the site of a coolant failure after Friday's quake, is pictured in a 2008 file photo.

    Toshiaki Sakai, director of the Japan Atomic Industrial Forum International Cooperation Center, said nuclear power companies around the globe have since implemented over 53 safety improvements to avert a repeat.

    The International Atomic Energy Agency estimates that around 20 percent of nuclear reactors around the world are currently operating in areas of significant seismic activity.

    The IAEA said the sector began putting more emphasis on external hazards after an earthquake hit TEPCO's Kashiwazaki-Kariwa plant in July 2007, until then the largest to ever affect a nuclear facility.

    When the earthquake hit the Kashiwazaki-Kariwa nuclear power plant, four reactors shut down automatically. Water containing radioactive material was released into the sea, but without an adverse effect on human health or the environment, it said.
    No Sushi for a while boys, say 2,000 years or so...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Japan's nuclear power sector produces about 30 percent of the country's electricity and has been rocked periodically over the past decade by safety concerns. Many reactors are located in earthquake-prone zones such as northeastern Fukushima prefecture and Fukui prefecture on the Japanese coast.
    Well, FUKUI!

    In all seriousness, this is not a serious problem. Now...


    THAT, my friends, was a BIG problem! ...and it still IS.....
    Last edited by A-1; 03-12-2011 at 04:17 AM. Reason: embellishments, like the EPA is FULL of SHIT...
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  3. #3
    Retired. IEunuch's Avatar
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    Re: Emergencies declared at 5 Japan nuclear reactors

    Comment heard from someone, somewhere over the course of the day:

    Apparently, when they were building a nuclear power plant somewhere in the US, they had to import the stone for the concrete from out of state. Why? Because the local stuff was too naturally radioactive, and would have exceeded their allowed limits.

    Have granite countertops? Congrats, they're radioactive, and you've been exposed! Oh noes!

    As terrible as what's happening over there is, both in terms of the nuclear power plants and everything else, one thing you should keep in mind. According to at least one talking head, the plant they're having the most trouble with is over 40 years old, and lacks some of the safety systems that are in place in most modern builds. (Not to say it hasn't been updated, but there are some features that could not be retrofitted into the old construction, from what I hear.)


    As near as I can determine from the various talking heads, the problems they're having flat out would not have happened in a more modern reactor.

    What I find questionable (and ironic) is that at least some of the problems occurred because they suffered a blackout. Is it too much like lifting yourself by your bootstraps for some of the power the plant produces to be diverted into it's own systems, with only the remainder being transmitted to the grid? I swear, it sounded at some points like they were saying all the electricity gets sent out, then they wind up importing some back from elsewhere.
    I believe someone could organize a protest against homophones without people figuring out what the word really means.

  4. #4

    Re: Emergencies declared at 5 Japan nuclear reactors

    Yoiks, A-1..You must be a nuclear scientist...
    From what I read, it seems the only problem is one of power failure...The generators for back-up power were drowned out by the tsunami...and there is mention of several "cars" being made available to supply power to the switching/valve systems so they can get the cooling back in operation...
    My guess is, the main problem with this whole thing was the loss of the generators, a problem that should/will be addressed in future applications..
    I believe there is some activity in the US on construction of new nuclear power plants...I hope they're listening...
    It seems nuclear power is still in a learning phase...If these problems can be worked out, it seems to be the number one answer to our power needs...Lowering our dependence on foreign oil, and cleaning up our air..But these safety factors must be solved...or the skeptics will never allow these plants to be built....dragonfly

  5. #5
    skopyets
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    Re: Emergencies declared at 5 Japan nuclear reactors

    Quote Originally Posted by A-1 View Post
    O.K., Dave. Get the knot out of your boxers...



    Honestly, YOU are such a Drama Queen...



    What would you EXPECT them to say? Do you expect them to say that Nuclear Power is safe?




    After Chernobyl, nuclear power plants were designed so that they shut down automatically. The problem is, the residual heat has to be handled and apparently that cooling system needs generators that are not working at the moment. Nuclear Power plants all have residual backup systems So far, everything seems to be working and it has been contained by the second safety feature of probably many.



    O.K. 1 Sievert = 100 REM OR. 0.01 Sievert = 1 Rem

    1 microsievert = 0.000001 sievert.

    SO 0.59 microsieverts is 0.00000059 sieverts. Which is 0.059 millirems.

    Maximum permissible dose for radiation workers is set at 1,250 millirems per quarter according to the International Committee on Radiation Protection (ICRP). Or, in other words, it takes 1,250 millirems ina 90 day period to cause a risk that is higher than a control group that received NO radiation at all. The MPD for 1 year is 5 Rem or 5,000 millirem.




    Even at this level of exposure you would have to be in the control room over 178.57 hours to exceed a maximum permissible dose for a Radiation worker for a 90 day period. It takes
    100 REM (that is 100,000 milliREM) to cause a lowering of the blood count in a healthy adult. You would have to LIVE in that control room for a over WEEK, that is, 24-7 before you would get over your maximum permissible dose. So 8 hour shifts for several weeks is not going to hurt you.

    If you read below you will find out that every living thing receives
    310 millirem each year from background sources alone.





    That statement by the EPA is NOT supported by research. If it were what you are saying is that the 320 millirem that we get from Earth and outer space sources is DANGEROUS? No, seriously I have outlined it in RED above. Go look. The EPA is SO FULL OF SHIT...they belong in the SHITTY TOILET THREAD.




    The reason why they keep switching to microsieverts is to CONFUSE the READER. A microsievert is about 1/10 of a millirem. So the statement above should read 0.003 millirem and 0.023 millirem. Confusing, isn't it?




    That may have been the case when they were using film, but it is NOT the case today. The doses are higher because they no longer use film.




    "Extraordinarily high" compared to WHAT? He doesn't know what the HELL he is talking about so I am not surprised that he would not want to be inside the place. The threat for thyroid cancer comes from I-131, a Gamma emitter with a half life of about 8 days. The real problem is Radium with a half life of 1,620 years which is also a Gamma emitter. If the radiation is contained, (and since they already discharged radioactive steam it isn't) there is no threat. The more that is released, the higher the threat. If the core goes, then Uranium-238, Plutonium-239 and other long-lived isotopes with half lives over 80,000 years are harmfully radioactive for a long, long time.

    That is what scares Dave, but that is NOT going to happen.




    Run a cable from a docked nuclear submarine and you would have enough electricity to power the pumps.



    No Sushi for a while boys, say 2,000 years or so...



    Well, FUKUI!

    In all seriousness, this is not a serious problem. Now...


    THAT, my friends, was a BIG problem! ...and it still IS.....
    my co-teacher is from chernobyl, ur right

  6. #6
    I really do look like my avatar Dave's Avatar
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    Re: Emergencies declared at 5 Japan nuclear reactors

    Every plant that generates electricity also consumes electricity.

    If you take nuclear heat to generate steam and run a turbine, you can get electricity.
    If you burn coal and use the heat to generate steam and run a turbine you get electricity.

    The electricity is first used to run the plant itself and then supplies the grid. If the turbine isn't working (which is what happened in Fukushima Japan) and you can't suck power off the grid because the earthquake destroyed the transmission lines for the grid, then an emergency generator takes over.

    Emergency generators are big, honking diesels. They are reliable unless they get flooded by a tsunami.

    Now in a coal fired power plant, the flames go out.
    In a nuclear plant, the reaction never stops and it generates heat which boils away its cooling water and it generates hydrogen which (think Hindenburg) is explosive.

    In fact, they have pictures of the building housing Fukushima #1 reactor blowing up this morning.

    This reactor is running out of control. It is now open to the atmosphere.

    THE NEWS:
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42044156...s-asiapacific/
    IWAKI, Japan — Japanese authorities confirmed Saturday that radiation had leaked from a quake-hit nuclear plant after an explosion destroyed a building housing a reactor.
    The blast at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear facility occurred just hours after officials said they feared the reactor could melt down. The area was later also hit by a 6.4-magnitude aftershock.
    Footage on Japanese TV showed the explosion had crumbled the building's walls, leaving only a skeletal metal frame standing. Its roof had also been blown off. Plumes of smoke spewed out of the plant, 20 miles from Iwaki.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42044156...s-asiapacific/
    “They also call it the Winged Isle. Some say it is because the island, if seen from above, would look like butterfly wings. And I do not know the truth of it.” Then, “ ‘And what is truth?’ said jesting Pilate.” From: The Truth Is A Cave In The Black Mountains by Neil Gaiman.

  7. #7
    I really do look like my avatar Dave's Avatar
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    Re: Emergencies declared at 5 Japan nuclear reactors

    I know this game being played out in Japan.

    In a disaster like this at the nuclear, the authorities minimize the risk.

    However, when they evacuate civilians from around the plant one day and a day later increase the size of the evacuation zone, ALL IS NOT WELL.

    "there is not threat!" "We have it under control!"
    Sorry, not when you are increasing the evacuation area. Not when prudence says increase the size of that area.

    I know this game. I had media training and I know this game.
    It is all lies and obsfucations.
    “They also call it the Winged Isle. Some say it is because the island, if seen from above, would look like butterfly wings. And I do not know the truth of it.” Then, “ ‘And what is truth?’ said jesting Pilate.” From: The Truth Is A Cave In The Black Mountains by Neil Gaiman.

  8. #8
    Neither prude nor dense.
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    Re: Emergencies declared at 5 Japan nuclear reactors

    Aren't all Reactors supposed to have a "SCRAM" system which drops all the Control Rods into the Core, and then fills the Core with a Neutron Absorber (such as Boric Acid or Barium) to stop the reaction?

    Or is that one of the new safety features that this old Reactor doesn't have?

    ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scram --and-- http://www.pipeline.com/~rstater/nuke1zhh.html )
    Last edited by Prudence; 03-12-2011 at 04:22 PM. Reason: Typo, add Links
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  9. #9
    I really do look like my avatar Dave's Avatar
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    Re: Emergencies declared at 5 Japan nuclear reactors

    Quote Originally Posted by Prudence View Post
    Aren't all Reactors supposed to have a "SCRAM" system which drops all the Control Rods into the Core, and then fills the Core with a Neutron Absorber (such as Boric Acid or Barium) to stop the reaction?
    Or is that one of the new safety features that this old Reactor doesn't have?
    ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scram --and-- http://www.pipeline.com/~rstater/nuke1zhh.html )
    Yes, they all have a SCRAM as it is called. SCRAM does not stop the nuclear reaction. It only slows it to a crawl.

    If anyone or anything gets sufficient uranium together, the mass undergoes fission. The "rods" are moderating material that absorbs neutrons but the mass of the core is still hot and still reacting as long as there is critical mass.

    That's why I made the analogy to coal by saying "when you lose power in a coal-fire power plant, the fire goes out.

    When you lose power in a nuclear power plant, the fire doesn't go out because the core is over critical mass and density. It stays hot and must be constantly cooled to prevent it from overheating. The nuclear reaction keeps on going generating heat, hydrogen, and radiation.

    Fukushima lost grid power in the earthquake. It's emergency diesel power generators turned on and powered the pumps that supply cooling water. The Tsunami wiped out the emergency diesels. So they only had batteries to run the cooling water pumps with. The batteries seem not to have enough power to keep the core cool.
    “They also call it the Winged Isle. Some say it is because the island, if seen from above, would look like butterfly wings. And I do not know the truth of it.” Then, “ ‘And what is truth?’ said jesting Pilate.” From: The Truth Is A Cave In The Black Mountains by Neil Gaiman.

  10. #10
    chemcast scot
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    Re: Emergencies declared at 5 Japan nuclear reactors

    Lets just hope that things dont get any worse, or we could feel the efects of this sad event.

  11. #11

    Re: Emergencies declared at 5 Japan nuclear reactors

    I haven't read the most recent information.

    If there IS a core meltdown they are in DEEP DEW-DEW
    And no... It is NOT safe to try to contain the fire. It is best to let it burn itself out. The Fire emits HIGHLY RADIOACTIVE smoke. Being downwind from it for several hundred miles is enough to cause serious harm if not death.
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    Re: Emergencies declared at 5 Japan nuclear reactors

    Quote Originally Posted by chemcast scot View Post
    Lets just hope that things dont get any worse, or we could feel the efects of this sad event.
    The radioactive cloud will circle the Earth and set off radiation detectors everywhere. As it is diluted in the air it becomes less and less of a threat. Rainstorms bring down radioactive dust particles and raise radiation rates that naturally occur from falling dust.
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  13. #13
    Am I banned? Eeeek!!! moi621's Avatar
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    smokes Re: Emergencies declared at 5 Japan nuclear reactors

    Just say
    NO to Nuclear.

    It only has to fail once.
    Moi
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  14. #14
    The Rest of the Story Riverwind's Avatar
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    Re: Emergencies declared at 5 Japan nuclear reactors

    There is nothing wrong with Nuclear, the US Navy has been using it for years.

    I wonder what they do with the waste?

    Big Ocean.

    And BTW MOI, where do you think those little green men come from?


    River
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  15. #15
    I really do look like my avatar Dave's Avatar
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    Re: Emergencies declared at 5 Japan nuclear reactors

    >>Nothing terrible happening here, just look away and it will all be OK
    >>THEY ARE TRAINED TO SAY THAT TYPE OF JIBBERISH
    >>
    >>The reason for seawater is that they have strung makeshift hoses to the reactor core and are pumping the only water at hand to cool the reactor assembly.
    >>It's an exposed core containment structure inside the skeleton of a building.
    >>

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42044156...s-asia-pacific

    Core of quake-damaged reactor partially melts
    Seawater being poured into reactor to cool it; evacuation perimeter extended to 12 miles

    The core of a nuclear reactor damaged by Friday’s massive earthquake has partially melted, Japan’s nuclear safety agency said Saturday, and the company that runs the plant is pouring seawater into the reactor in an attempt to cool it and prevent it from going critical.

    An explosion at the same facility, TEPCO's Fukushima No. 1 plant, destroyed the exterior walls of the building, but officials said the blast did not breach the steel housing enveloping the reactor.

    TEPCO's Fukushima No. 1 and No. 2 plants lost their cooling functions after the area was jolted by a magnitude 8.9 earthquake on Friday. Radioactive cesium and iodine were detected near the facility Saturday, indicating that the melting had occurred, Kyodo News Service reported.

    It is the first time a Japanese nuclear plant has ever experienced any level of reactor core melting.

    The melting temperature for pellets containing cesium, a fissile material, is around 2,800 degrees Celsius, or about 5,000 degrees Fahrenheit.

    Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano said TEPCO has begun new cooling operations to fill the reactor with seawater and pour in boric acid, which absorbs neutrons, an operation expected to take several hours, Kyodo reported.

    Filling the entire reactor container with seawater will take about 10 days, Edano said. It is likely that the reactor will have to be decommissioned because of the contamination by salts and other substances, experts said, according to Kyodo.

    Officials said a radiation leak at the reactor hit by the explosion was decreasing after the blast. The explosion occurred as vapor from the container of the reactor turned into hydrogen and mixed with outside oxygen, Edano said, according to Kyodo. The area was later also hit by a 6.4-magnitude aftershock.

    Footage on Japanese TV showed the explosion had crumbled the building's walls, leaving only a skeletal metal frame standing. Its roof had also been blown off. Plumes of smoke spewed out of the plant, 20 miles from Iwaki.

    ...snip

    The Tokyo Electric Power Co. (TEPCO), which operates the six-reactor Daiichi site, said Friday that it had also lost cooling ability at a second reactor there and three units at its nearby Fukushima Daini site.

    The government declared a state of emergency at all those units.

    Although the government spokesman played down fears of radiation leak, the Japanese nuclear agency spokesman Shinji Kinjo acknowledged there were still fears of a meltdown.

    There's more at: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42044156...s-asia-pacific
    “They also call it the Winged Isle. Some say it is because the island, if seen from above, would look like butterfly wings. And I do not know the truth of it.” Then, “ ‘And what is truth?’ said jesting Pilate.” From: The Truth Is A Cave In The Black Mountains by Neil Gaiman.

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