The final five episodes of CAPRICA

[Dave]

SyFy channel kissed Battlestar Galactica goodbye and finished by kicking its spinoff CAPRICA around tonight. They showed the final five episodes in one block from 6pm eastern to 11pm. It's a shame they treat well written stories this way because their viewers want marathons of Star Trek TNG repeated endlessly. Not to mention the other shit series of Ghost Hunters, Stargate Universe (unwatchable trash) and Wrestling (stick a needle in my butt and shove a speedo down my throat till I gag).

Caprica is the story of the creation and rise of the Cylons robots that warred so well in Battlestar Galactica (both versions old and new). What the audience thought was going to happen did not happen. I'm not going to give out spoilers but some of the obvious things we know will happen actually do -- robots become the servants of man setting up the robot-human wars, the monotheistic religion is established on the polytheistic 12 planets, and we finally see the child who will become William Adama (the Lorne Green, Edward James Olmos character).

I guess that I am lamenting that this is the last of good science fiction on cable with this being one of the very last attempts at quality writing, spectacular acting and nice effects (just nice not eye-popping).

Cupcake Wars on Food TV and CHOPPED are better than most SyFy efforts.

[Riverwind]

Well, I love SyFy but must put in my two cents worth,

I thought gagula the first was one of the worst attempts at Sci-Fi every attempted.

The second go around was not much better and I lost interest after about 10 shows,

I never saw any of this third series but if it was not better then the first two I think I am glad I missed it.

The best Science Fiction show on TV must be B5, a standard that all other must be judged, so far none have, and Gagula was the worst of the bunch.

River

[IEunuch]

I thought the new BSG was good, at least the first few seasons were. After that, it descended quickly into a complete mess.

Caprica though.... I have mixed feelings about. It was a pretty highbrow show, dealing with a lot of really major issues. Surprisingly complex, at least for today's audiences. I watched it, or at least most of it, and I really wanted to like it because it was absolutely well-written and well-acted, but somehow it just didn't really seem to grab me.

Personally, I disagree with you about Stargate: Universe, and feel that after an initial rocky start, the show has settled down and really picked up in it's second season. To me though, the show to beat in terms of top-notch SF on TV is Fringe. Sadly, that show is likely also not long for this world. (Damn you, Fox!)

[Dave]

Well, I love SyFy but must put in my two cents worth,
I thought gagula the first was one of the worst attempts at Sci-Fi every attempted.
The second go around was not much better and I lost interest after about 10 shows,
I never saw any of this third series but if it was not better then the first two I think I am glad I missed it.
The best Science Fiction show on TV must be B5, a standard that all other must be judged, so far none have, and Gagula was the worst of the bunch.
River

I hear this from a certain group of people.
I watched the pilot of Babylon 5 and thought it was a bore. I didn't watch any of the episodes until they repeated the first year of the series and then I was hooked. The remade the pilot and solved the boredom problem by adjusting less than 2 minutes of the film or tape. It was all about cutting and pacing.

But I digress. B5 was excellent .

[Dave]

Caprica is a series about loss and family in so many ways. It purports to tell the origin of the Cylons (the robots that revolt and are the bad guys in both BSG series). However, that is an incredibly simple story. It would take all of one hour to tell that story, unless...

Caprica deals with A) monotheism versus polytheism b) the way the two families - Graystone and Adama - deal with death, c) race relations between planetary races, d) the virtual world and how people live in it, e) corrupt police, and a few other topics.

It is not an easy story either. How can it be? In the first episode they kill off two of the main characters. Someone died (don't ask, go watch) in the episodes last night that put me into tears. A terrible, heartbreaking death. In fact, several of them. That does not make for happy viewers.

[Caith721]

I'm a huge fan of Babylon 5, for a lot of reasons. I hate how it fell apart in the last 1.5 seasons, but they tried and did well, anyway. I was COMPLETELY enjoying the first several episodes of Caprica, but I haven't yet checked my TiVo to see if it recorded the marathon of final episodes (as it should have).

[artisticlicense]

I thought the new BSG was good, at least the first few seasons were. After that, it descended quickly into a complete mess.

Caprica though.... I have mixed feelings about. It was a pretty highbrow show, dealing with a lot of really major issues. Surprisingly complex, at least for today's audiences. I watched it, or at least most of it, and I really wanted to like it because it was absolutely well-written and well-acted, but somehow it just didn't really seem to grab me.

Personally, I disagree with you about Stargate: Universe, and feel that after an initial rocky start, the show has settled down and really picked up in it's second season. To me though, the show to beat in terms of top-notch SF on TV is Fringe. Sadly, that show is likely also not long for this world. (Damn you, Fox!)

I thought Caprica was a little too much 'something' too, but watched it until I couldn't. I never got 'bored' (maybe that says something of me); but I love Sci-fi anyway, even the bad stuff (don't go there . . . ).

I never got to see 'BG', as you say, it was nearly over before I discovered it. What I have seen, I think is very good. I can still find it listed on late night, but I will wait until both come out on DVD, and have a 'complete' story.

I disagree about the Stargate series too. It has about the same 'believability' as Battlestar Galactica, to me. It started out with logic, if you think about the alien ancestors plot logically. Some of the characters and costumes were a tad . . well....No different than most other Sci-fi offerings, fast-built for the TV audiences.
(Hush yo' mouth!) Fringe better NOT get canceled! There's no way FOX would be THAT stupid. It's kooky and sometimes unbelievable. But, it has a huge following. The plot/premise has gotten better and I look forward to it every week.

[Dave]

The best aliens in any series were the creations on Farscape. By far and away the most inventive aliens.

I too, thought Stargate's aliens got a bit out of hand and nutty. One thing that Star Trek and Stargate never learned was not to keep amping up the power of spaceships and weapons. Eventually, they got so powerful they started to control suns and stuff. That loses believability in a hurry.
Another problem I have with Stargate is the lack of action. Too many long explanations of what is going on and why and how it gets cured and then, poof, it's over. The episodes become predictable. Now that's OK if the show is a police procedural like Perry Mason or Murder She Wrote or Law and Order but not for episodic science fiction.

Caprica had an amazingly complex plot because of the five years of BSG ahead of it. It had to tell the story of Daniel Graystone who invented the Cylons, The Adama familly and how they spawned Commander Adama, the two religions, the rather complex sentience of the Cylons, and the society that spawned the robots and spawned the war.
Caprica had to make those storylines blend together and hold the viewer's interest. The Adamas and he Graystone's had no reason to meet. They had no reason to be on the same planet. It's that interaction that created more than simply a "man invents robot villain." They ask what is the nature of good and evil. The question we all ask.

[Riverwind]

I'm a huge fan of Babylon 5, for a lot of reasons. I hate how it fell apart in the last 1.5 seasons, but they tried and did well, anyway. I was COMPLETELY enjoying the first several episodes of Caprica, but I haven't yet checked my TiVo to see if it recorded the marathon of final episodes (as it should have).

B5 was a 4 year story, then they asked for a 5 year, it did go down hill however it was a complete story.

Year 1 was OK, give it a 3.6
Year 2 was much better, 4.1
Year 3 and 4 were intense give them both a 5.0
year 5 was the end, give it a 3.0 at best.

But as the whole story goes, it was a great show.

When the question is asked in the pilot and answered in next to the last show 5 years later, that's good writing.

River

[IEunuch]

B5 was a 4 year story, then they asked for a 5 year, it did go down hill however it was a complete story.

Year 1 was OK, give it a 3.6
Year 2 was much better, 4.1
Year 3 and 4 were intense give them both a 5.0
year 5 was the end, give it a 3.0 at best.

But as the whole story goes, it was a great show.

When the question is asked in the pilot and answered in next to the last show 5 years later, that's good writing.

River

Nope, sorry, you're wrong on that one.

Babylon 5 was originally intended as a five-year story arc. However due to low ratings and network troubles, they ran into issues in Season 3, and were only barely able to secure assurances that there would be a Season 4. While they were filming Season 4, most everyone involved figured that it would be the last season for Babylon 5, and rather than leave people hanging with an incomplete story, JMS et al decided to compress the remaining two seasons into one, that way at least the various storylines would be wrapped up, should the series be cancelled. That's why Season 4 seems rushed at times. (The ending of the Shadow War suffers particularly from this, with it's conclusion coming far too fast and easy early in the fourth season.)

Somehow though, the series got renewed for a fifth season. Unfortunately, JMS had already burned through the preplanned arcs that he'd been potting for several years, so they came up with the 'telepath colony' storyline to fill the season. It pretty much comes out of nowhere, feels somewhat forced, and really doesn't go anywhere.

As proof, the final episode of the series (Sleeping in Light) was actually filmed as the end of Season 4 (with a credit to Claudia Christian). When the series was unexpectedly renewed, the first episode of Season 5 (The Deconstruction of Falling Stars) was aired in its place as the Season 4 finale (without credit to Claudia Christian).

I will agree though, damn good writing. I do believe JMS still holds a record as being the only person to single-handedly write an entire season (two, actually) of a television series. That would be seasons 3 & 4, generally regarded as the best two seasons of the entire series (and some of the best two seasons of SF, anywhere.)

[Dave]

That's almost correct.

In the third season of B5, the owner wanted to can it and the outcry got too much as season three ended with Z'ha'Dum and that was a huge, monsrtous cliffhanger... So the the network heads OK"ed a fourth season and then proceed to sell the rights. Unable to secure the final season, JMS wrote the final episode of season four - "The Deconstruction of Falling Stars which closed the story of the Babylon Station so the readers wouldn't be left hanging.

Season five was planned out in the "book" kept by JMS. However, it was not written until after the end season 4.

I was reading JMS's writing online at the time and he always planned the fifth year into his story arc. He wanted to write what happened the year after the big climax of the war between light and dark, when the old races left the universe and the various alien races were free to do what they pleased.

JMS has complained about stories that end with the big battle and then never mention what happened after. So when he did get a season five, All of the plot lines of the previous four years could once again twist and turn around each other to reach some conclusion. AFter all, the battle for earth in season four is much more exciting than the battle at Coriana 6 where the Vorlons and Shadows leave the galaxy.

I like season five in that it shows that after the two big, climactic battles, there are still problems and still troubles hanging around. The victory is not clean and simple. THe peace is messy and filled with strife.

[KewlDawg]

... , and we finally see the child who will become William Adama (the Lorne Green, Edward James Olmos character).

I am not as sure that Willie Adama grows up to be Bill Adama. IMHO, more likely a name-sake.

I really enjoyed the re-imaged BSG. I will say that I started out pretty skeptical. What, Starbuck without a dick? But as I watched, I grew impressed with the show's quality and well planned story arcs.

Caprica, though, was a good story line, but was being drawn out way too long. IMHO, it would have worked better as a 4 or 5 episode mini-series.

[jab]

The best Science Fiction show on TV must be B5, a standard that all other must be judged, so far none have, and Gagula was the worst of the bunch.

Pretty much.

I think that Caprica was setting up for a punch line, but with nothing in the middle of the story. The punch line is this: that the liberation of the souls on Earth, according to the eventual religion of the Cylons, was the genocide of the humans, according to the human point of view. Caprica is the explanation for the first explanation of the story.

B5 had some wooden acting, certainly, but there were episodes that were just good-on-their-own and some that were clearly pieces on the game board that was the "larger five-year story". The mix and writing were good enough that we came along for the ride. The secondary characters were all wonderful.

B5 was not perfect. One would launch into an origin-myth monologue at the drop of a hat: "billions of years ago..." and another would alternate between quoting Tennyson and quoting the fictional dad-figure, Mike Brady. One was a hedonist prick who was corrupt beyond belief - and paid for it mightily - and another was a hot-head who ended up becoming a major pacifist religious figure.

But it was good fun, and when the five-year story fired into full force, B5 was quite something to watch. I still pop in the DVD and watch the captain jumping off a building, out of a fast-moving people-mover, to certain death, only to be saved - again and again - by his mystic friends the First Ones.

[Dave]

I am not as sure that Willie Adama grows up to be Bill Adama. IMHO, more likely a name-sake.

I really enjoyed the re-imaged BSG. I will say that I started out pretty skeptical. What, Starbuck without a dick? But as I watched, I grew impressed with the show's quality and well planned story arcs.

Caprica, though, was a good story line, but was being drawn out way too long. IMHO, it would have worked better as a 4 or 5 episode mini-series.

You didn't see the last program or you missed the ending montage...
How do I say this without a major spoiler?
There are many things in the closing montage of APOTHEOSIS (the final episode) that link the future to the past. For the public I will say that we see Bill Adama who pilots the Battlestar Galactica through the five year series. I won't say anything else in B&W.
However, Danger, invisible spoiler text follows: It's his third son named in honor of his second son who dies in the assassination attempt. The kid's death prompts the Adama's takeover of the organized crime group, whatever they call it. Damn it Joe and Sam Adama watched their parents die and killed the people who did it out of revenge. They kill the Guatrau who ordered them assassinated and the execution resulted in the death of a child. Could a story get much darker than that? Bill Adama of the spaceship Galactica was the son of the head of the Caprican mafia, murderers from childhood.
If you don't want it spoiled, don't highlight the text you can't read. And if you reset the colors from a light background to a dark one, sorry ... you're shit out of luck.

[MacTheWolf]

Caprica was crap as was Stargate Universe. I am, however, a fan of Battlestar Galatica, Stargate Atlantis and Babylon Five.