Taking the Plunge.....Again

[Conscientious]

"One of the top issues is the emphasis I place on my privacy. Most who know me know I am an extremely private person, and I am not sure I can make the necessary sacrifices for a relationship. Another important issue is my severe dislike of conflict. I hate not getting along with people, and conflict is a central part of just about any romantic relationship."

Ha ha ha. I can relate to that. I absolutely love my own space and have rarely been in or seen a relationship that you don't think "God, sign me up for celibacy". Maybe you could join a dating site specify you want someone you only see once week. I might do that.

It seems whenever I'm online there is always an american who can't meet anybody. Why is that? Is everyone raised to be superficial there focusing only on financial status or physical attributes? Are ya'll too picky or do you exaggerate a lot? Have heart. Some women, non-US at least, love a man for his heart.

America: The land of dreams and singlehood.

[plix]

As a young eunuch, I will probably not lose my sexuality as quickly or completely as older eunuchs. This is something that I am beginning to realize. Also, I began E only three weeks after my castration. That probably made for a different experience versus this time around.

I'm not sure what E would do for libido. It may actually contribute to keeping it alive. But E definitely further reduces erectile function. Just the lack of T may leave me with more erections than I would hope for.

I am beginning to think that there may be mental/emotional effects to hormonal changes that I simply do not recall. In an old post I stated that I was taking E in part due to the mental effects (this was after I had decided against transitioning to female). Obviously I must have noticed something that would cause me to post that.

Going back and comparing my posts in those days to more recent posts, I am wondering if there may have been more "life" to my writing when I was taking E. One thing my writing is often accused of is being "stiff" and lacking warmth. On the other hand, it could also have been that I was trying to be female and mimicking what I perceived to be a feminine writing style.

So why am I mentioning E so much? Yes, it's true. After only three weeks I am already considering going back on E. I just can't stick with anything, can I? My goal was supposed to be one year with no hormones. Now, I haven't broken it yet, but the fact that I am considering doing so this early leaves me with doubts that I will be able to accomplish it.

The reasons I am considering taking E are to maintain health and to possibly experience the further reduced sexuality I am looking for. As I have stated previously, I do not identify as female and have no desire to become female.

The cons to taking E:

1) Feminization: Due to my bone structure and mannerisms I will always be able to pass as male, but after some time I may start getting stares again. Also, I have a job now which involves frequent contact with the public. I am concerned about any potential issues that could develop related to my job. I never had significant breast development even on higher doses of E, but it was enough to be noticed as not your typical male chest unless I bound it, which I really would not feel like doing.

2) Availability: I do have a doctor, but I doubt he would be willing to prescribe E. So if I wanted to take it, I would be left with purchasing it online. If I were to take it, I would rather have it prescribed.

I am wondering if the lack of T is going to bring up gender issues again. I have struggled with the following question over the years: If I do not fit the profile of a stereotypical man, does that make me not male? A few years ago I reasoned that it did, and that the only other option was female. However, I learned that female was not right for me. So where does that leave me? People have said that I appear masculine on the outside, but I do not feel stereotypically masculine on the inside. Certainly my flat affect contributes to the outer masculine appearance. If I didn't have that problem, might I be perceived differently?

If were to take T, would I perfectly happy as male and never question my identity?

Most likely what I need to do is be patient and try to stick this out. I am sure I will be happy with where I am at a year from now. But it is so hard to wait that long :P

[Dave]

At least you understand you need patience.
Nothing in the human body happens overnight (well nothing good). So relax, enjoy the autumn, find some music you like and listen, read a good book (or a comedy book about zombies. I can recommend one.) and let things happen. This is like watching grass grow. Nothing happens in days but months later, the stuff grows so fast you can't put the mower away.
peace and love (As my old hippie friends say)...

[tugon]

Youth is always in a hurry. Think about where you will be when 50. All we do today will effect us in later years. Before starting E think about long term goals. I know in some aspects you would be happier spending your life alone but this may cause you to miss out on a greater happiness.

As we have talked many nights I want you to date. Then you would encourage me to find someone and I would remind you "been there, done that and got the soundtrack". When you started on T the realization you were straight was at the time very exciting to you. I made poor Danya take us to Hooters so you could ogle some young women. Danya and I were bored.

You have been loved before and I know you will be loved again. I just want you to be ready when that connection happens. Even after all my years I believe in love.

[plix]

It has now been one month with no T.

My sense of smell has definitely improved. I am smelling lots of things I never noticed before.

Libido continues to decrease, but I am still far from asexual.

I am now flaccid in the morning but continue to wake up with an erection once per night.

I have yet to notice any significant decrease in energy.

There have been a few times where I felt a little warm, and since that happened last time around as well, they could be mild hot flashes, but they are certainly nothing like what I have heard others describe as full-blown hot flashes.

I would like to have my T levels tested, and I do have a lab order from my doctor that includes a T test. However, he is not aware that I have discontinued taking T. If my levels come back ridiculously low, he will either think there is something seriously wrong or will guess that I have stopped. He stressed the importance of taking T during my last visit, so somehow I don't believe he would be supportive of a non-T eunuch. I have not had the lab work done yet because I am worried about how he will react.

I continue to debate the possibility of taking E. Looking at some old photos taken at the Portland MoM in 2006, I am wondering if I would really feminize as much as I feared. At that time I had been taking E for a year, and I still looked clearly male. And that was when I was younger. Now, being older, E should have even weaker effects on me.

I continue to be thankful to everyone who has responded for their support

[tugon]

As we travelled lost through Southwestern Ohio I realized you still had a better sense of direction than me. I wonder if that will fade for you as it has for me. Now I know not to use google maps. I need to buy a compass so I know which direction I am driving.

I enjoyed that you were noticing scents that had previously been undetected. For me the best part of no T is all the new senses that had been blocked by T. I noticed people were more comfortable with me after the drop in T.

Speaking of more comfortable I have to say again how much fun I had driving lost through very rural and poor areas with you. Other times I was on edge and well I might as well say it a bitch. The times you were on high levels of T even though I did not understand my reactions I developed defensive reactions. Being no T and you high T triggered a level of anxiety within me. I guess if I ever have a roommate again it will need to be a eunuch or a woman.

Whatever you decide is right for you I support you. In your travels through life and learning about yourself I find I have learned much about myself. After all is that not the greatest aspect of friendship?

[plix]

Lately I have been experiencing what may be mood issues. However, it is difficult to tell what exactly is causing them.

A significant cause is likely frustration over my job. I have been unhappy for some time now with my job, primarily due to the specific environment in which I work rather than the job itself. I have been offered the opportunity to transfer to a different location, which I happily accepted. I have worked at this location previously, and I was extremely happy there compared to the current location. I never knew a job could be so fun and stress-free until I worked at the different location I am hoping the transfer will relieve most of my job-related stress.

Another probable cause is the transition into winter. I moved from Southern California to Ohio a year and a half ago. Back home we don't have winter. The biggest adjustments I've had to deal with during winter are the extensive periods of gray days and the emptiness that results from the lack of green. We haven't had too many gray days yet, but the trees have gone dormant, which means the emptiness is here. It can be quite depressing at times. We haven't even officially begun winter yet, and I am already longing for summer.

So it is difficult to tell if the hormonal changes are playing a role in my mood fluctuation. In any case, I am sure my hormonal state is not helping.

By now word should be out that I am on E. I would imagine many people probably guessed this was inevitable. I am happy with this decision so far

I desire more feminization than I have admitted up to this point, though I still do not view myself as female. I remain concerned about the social consequences of taking E for a long period of time. We shall see what happens.

Lately I have accepted that just like everything else in my life, my gender seems to be incredibly fluid. I don't see myself as completely female, but I do not see myself as completely male either. It would be nice if I could decide to switch back and forth at will

[tugon]

Congratulations on the transfer. Work can be fun in an encouraging and safe environment. I am glad you were given some compliments about your work. You should have included them in this post.

Yes the barren grey days are here in Ohio. I was recently complaining about how oppressive the sun was during our visit to Southern California. Now I read about your missing the green and realize it is all what we are used to in our lives. The rebirth of Spring is just around the corner and I hope without all the T in your system you are able to enjoy the perfumed airs of spring.

I hope you find the right HRT or lack of that brings you happiness. It is never too late to have a happy childhood. Your happiness is long overdue.

[Caith721]

I desire more feminization than I have admitted up to this point, though I still do not view myself as female. I remain concerned about the social consequences of taking E for a long period of time. We shall see what happens.

Lately I have accepted that just like everything else in my life, my gender seems to be incredibly fluid. I don't see myself as completely female, but I do not see myself as completely male either. It would be nice if I could decide to switch back and forth at will

I am and always will be undeniably male, and I've been taking 17-beta estradiol for two years now. It's helped relieve my depression, but that's not unexpected as I've identified as transgendered since the age of seven. It is my sincere wish you enjoy experiencing all the physical and mental changes estrogen will bring to you. Good luck!

[graylayer02]

By now word should be out that I am on E. I would imagine many people probably guessed this was inevitable. I am happy with this decision so far

If there were a betting pool on this subject I'd be a rich man.

Good luck with your recent shift. Is it possible that a certain mix might be right?

[twaddler]

By now word should be out that I am on E. I would imagine many people probably guessed this was inevitable. I am happy with this decision so far

Oh, you may stray, but you'll always return to your dark master... . If you could, you'd guzzle it by the gallon! :P

E really is hard stuff to kick!

[mrt]

Hi Plix:

Sorry I've not been around much. I've been working my ass off at a pretty low paying job and dealing with all the day to day life issues. I guess having friends who are transgendered makes me think I "get" it which.... I'm sure I don't but I like to think I do. ;-)

I think some people who are transgendered are afraid of what others are going to think about how much work it is to live this way etc. I think having a really good therapist is a good step in helping make whatever plan you have work for you. I guess I've never been a "fan" of the hormone free life. I think its the glue that helps you function or at least it feels that way to me. Who ever said "estrogen is addictive" maybe right. I've always been a tad afraid of that stuff because I think being wired female might be just too much fun.

I know you have said many times that taking Estrogen was a sham because your not a woman but to turn this logic around a bit the important part of taking estrogen is that it will with time make you female. The wiring in your head, physical changes etc. Without testes you have the unique experience of having tried Testosterone and Estrogen and been able to say one is wrong and other feels right. Correct? Or is it a feeling that one is full of issues that you don't want to explore and other is easier? I suspect its someplace in between but I dunno... I'm not you! Ask yourself these questions and I think... If your going to do whatever have it done with a doctors supervision to stay healthy and safe.

BTW for whatever its worth at this late date I don't think you have any problems as far as being attractive to women. I'm obviously not a good judge but I don't see anything wrong with you that wouldn't appeal to the right girl.

Keep "riting" - Mr. T

[Danya]

As we have talked many nights I want you to date. Then you would encourage me to find someone and I would remind you "been there, done that and got the soundtrack". When you started on T the realization you were straight was at the time very exciting to you. I made poor Danya take us to Hooters so you could ogle some young women. Danya and I were bored.

Dear Plix,

You are a fine young person. I was delighted to get to know you a bit back in those Hooters days, when I spent a lot of time with you and Tugon. I realize I am coming into this discussion rather late and that you have already started E once again.

I am beginning to think that there may be mental/emotional effects to hormonal changes that I simply do not recall. Going back and comparing my posts in those days to more recent posts, I am wondering if there may have been more "life" to my writing when I was taking E. One thing my writing is often accused of is being "stiff" and lacking warmth. On the other hand, it could also have been that I was trying to be female and mimicking what I perceived to be a feminine writing style.

Although this may not be worth much, I very clearly remember how you wrote when you were on E several years ago. I also remember commenting to a mutual friend here that the emotions conveyed in your posts very clearly changed once you stopped E.

Whether or not you were feigning a feminine writing style, there are long-term mental and emotional consequences to extended hormone use of any kind. This is why I urge you to be cautious.

I am wondering if the lack of T is going to bring up gender issues again. I have struggled with the following question over the years: If I do not fit the profile of a stereotypical man, does that make me not male? A few years ago I reasoned that it did, and that the only other option was female. However, I learned that female was not right for me. So where does that leave me? People have said that I appear masculine on the outside, but I do not feel stereotypically masculine on the inside. Certainly my flat affect contributes to the outer masculine appearance. If I didn't have that problem, might I be perceived differently?

If were to take T, would I perfectly happy as male and never question my identity?

Most likely what I need to do is be patient and try to stick this out. I am sure I will be happy with where I am at a year from now. But it is so hard to wait that long :P

You bring up several important issues here. For your own long-term well being, I hope you will start finding answers with the help of a trained gender therapist.

Lately I have accepted that just like everything else in my life, my gender seems to be incredibly fluid. I don't see myself as completely female, but I do not see myself as completely male either. It would be nice if I could decide to switch back and forth at will

Gender identity can be fluid. You already know this. This is one reason why you need to be cautious about self-treatment with powerful chemicals that cause permanent changes in brain function.

Hi Plix:
I think having a really good therapist is a good step in helping make whatever plan you have work for you.

Plix, I agree with MrT. You have written many concerned, thoughtful posts and messages to me. Now I am very concerned for you. Ultimately, you alone are responsible for determining what is best for your life in the area of gender identity and everything else. You make the decisions and also live with the consequences. Have you reached the point of knowing your gender identity, with little reservation? Are there other things going on in you life that may be affecting how your view your gender identity? A good gender therapist will help you sort out what the best choices are for you as you find answers to the questions you raise in your posts.

[plix]

Congratulations on the transfer. Work can be fun in an encouraging and safe environment. I am glad you were given some compliments about your work. You should have included them in this post.

Yes the barren grey days are here in Ohio. I was recently complaining about how oppressive the sun was during our visit to Southern California. Now I read about your missing the green and realize it is all what we are used to in our lives. The rebirth of Spring is just around the corner and I hope without all the T in your system you are able to enjoy the perfumed airs of spring.

I hope you find the right HRT or lack of that brings you happiness. It is never too late to have a happy childhood. Your happiness is long overdue.

Thanks so much for your thoughts I do wish spring would come a little faster though :P

I am and always will be undeniably male, and I've been taking 17-beta estradiol for two years now. It's helped relieve my depression, but that's not unexpected as I've identified as transgendered since the age of seven. It is my sincere wish you enjoy experiencing all the physical and mental changes estrogen will bring to you. Good luck!

I am glad to hear there are others out there who are male and taking E! Thanks for your kind wish!

If there were a betting pool on this subject I'd be a rich man.

Good luck with your recent shift. Is it possible that a certain mix might be right?

It's very possible. I am still working out the details of what is best. Good to hear from you!

Oh, you may stray, but you'll always return to your dark master... . If you could, you'd guzzle it by the gallon! :P

E really is hard stuff to kick!

Yes, there are certain emotional benefits which make E very nice indeed

Hi Plix:

Sorry I've not been around much. I've been working my ass off at a pretty low paying job and dealing with all the day to day life issues. I guess having friends who are transgendered makes me think I "get" it which.... I'm sure I don't but I like to think I do. ;-)

I think some people who are transgendered are afraid of what others are going to think about how much work it is to live this way etc. I think having a really good therapist is a good step in helping make whatever plan you have work for you. I guess I've never been a "fan" of the hormone free life. I think its the glue that helps you function or at least it feels that way to me. Who ever said "estrogen is addictive" maybe right. I've always been a tad afraid of that stuff because I think being wired female might be just too much fun.

I know you have said many times that taking Estrogen was a sham because your not a woman but to turn this logic around a bit the important part of taking estrogen is that it will with time make you female. The wiring in your head, physical changes etc. Without testes you have the unique experience of having tried Testosterone and Estrogen and been able to say one is wrong and other feels right. Correct? Or is it a feeling that one is full of issues that you don't want to explore and other is easier? I suspect its someplace in between but I dunno... I'm not you! Ask yourself these questions and I think... If your going to do whatever have it done with a doctors supervision to stay healthy and safe.

BTW for whatever its worth at this late date I don't think you have any problems as far as being attractive to women. I'm obviously not a good judge but I don't see anything wrong with you that wouldn't appeal to the right girl.

Thanks for your response. It sounds like you are having a bit of a tough time, but I hope things are getting better for you.

I always enjoy reading your perspective on these matters.

I'm not sure if I can definitely say that when it comes to T and E one is wrong and the other is right. I think each has its pros and cons. I do hope to eventually discover more about E than I did the last time I was on it, when I never really took it consistently for more than about five months.

I really hope to eventually have my doctor's supervision. Among other benefits, it is a lot cheaper!

Thanks for your kind words

Dear Plix,

You are a fine young person. I was delighted to get to know you a bit back in those Hooters days, when I spent a lot of time with you and Tugon. I realize I am coming into this discussion rather late and that you have already started E once again.

Although this may not be worth much, I very clearly remember how you wrote when you were on E several years ago. I also remember commenting to a mutual friend here that the emotions conveyed in your posts very clearly changed once you stopped E.

Whether or not you were feigning a feminine writing style, there are long-term mental and emotional consequences to extended hormone use of any kind. This is why I urge you to be cautious.

You bring up several important issues here. For your own long-term well being, I hope you will start finding answers with the help of a trained gender therapist.

Gender identity can be fluid. You already know this. This is one reason why you need to be cautious about self-treatment with powerful chemicals that cause permanent changes in brain function.

Plix, I agree with MrT. You have written many concerned, thoughtful posts and messages to me. Now I am very concerned for you. Ultimately, you alone are responsible for determining what is best for your life in the area of gender identity and everything else. You make the decisions and also live with the consequences. Have you reached the point of knowing your gender identity, with little reservation? Are there other things going on in you life that may be affecting how your view your gender identity? A good gender therapist will help you sort out what the best choices are for you as you find answers to the questions you raise in your posts.

Thanks so much for replying!

I don't think we will ever forget those Hooters days I am still predominantly attracted to women, but I have had occasional feelings toward men. These feelings may or may not increase as I continue to take E. In any case, most of us probably aren't exclusively on one side or the other.

I also enjoyed getting the chance to know you back then, and I really hope we continue to stay in touch.

I definitely appreciate your advice, and I do know that I probably should speak to a therapist. My concerns are financial, as well as the fact that it is difficult to find a good therapist.

I am certainly nowhere near a point where I know with confidence my gender identity, and there definitely could be other factors contributing to these decisions to quit T and start E. I do hope eventually to discover the solutions to some of these problems.

[plix]

Lately I have been experiencing extreme moodiness. Much of this is probably due to the fact that I wanted to see what a menstrual cycle was like and was cycling my hormones. I have decided this probably is not a good idea. My moods have been all over the place. They tended to stabilize when I was at a point in my cycle where I was on a consistent dose for a longer period of time.

Gone are the days when I believed hormones don't affect me mentally/emotionally. The bad moods have been unpleasant, but the good moods have been great! There have been many times where I have felt simply ecstatic about life. I am hoping to increase these moods by switching to a stable dose of E.

On the downside, I have a much greater tendency to experience depressive moods and thoughts. Some of these can be quite intense as well.

On the job front, I completed the transfer, but I have still been required to fill in at the old location from time to time. This was two days a week for a while, but starting this week it will only be one day a week, which should make things nicer.

Having spent some more time in the new environment, I have learned that part of my dissatisfaction is indeed due to the job itself. The people at the new place are great and much easier to work with, but there are still fundamental aspects of the job that are a problem. I don't believe my chances of advancement at this job are very good. I do need to find something more suited to my personality. The only problem is I am not sure what would be more suited to me. I do believe, however, that my future is not in the world of business.

Part of it is the drive. I am driving almost 40 miles each way. In this era of rising gas prices, that is not a good thing. When I moved to the big city six months ago, the plan was that I would soon find a new job locally. That has not happened so far, partially due to my lack of putting enough effort into it. But jobs are also scarce right now, which does not help my pursuit.

I am starting to see physical changes in myself, which I knew would eventually happen. I have gotten the occasional strange look, but it is still much too early to determine if those changes are the cause. I do believe I am starting to look younger, and I believe the way some people have treated me recently is suggestive of this. Looking much younger than my true age will not be pleasant, but I will find a way to manage, just as I did before. I have decreased my E dose, simply because things are starting to happen, and I do not want then to happen too fast.