Well, NO.
What we are disagreeing upon is WHY we are turning into Greece.
You say Labor, and I say Management.
...that's the rub, my friend...
HAVE a GREAT day!
Re: Federal Civilian Workers Make Twice What Private Workers Do
Well, NO.
What we are disagreeing upon is WHY we are turning into Greece.
You say Labor, and I say Management.
...that's the rub, my friend...
HAVE a GREAT day!
A-1
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Greece turned into Greece because "labor" and "management" worked together to make it so. It couldn't have happened otherwise. A result of the power politics I described is that competing groups compromise. They might not like one another, but they develop an "understanding" that gives both sides some of what they want. This compromise may please the competing interest groups but still be harmful to society.
The basic deal is to give "labor" money and security while giving "management" unquestioned power. Bosses buy their jobs from workers. Both labor and management come to believe they have a right to enjoy their perks in perpetuity, regardless of circumstances. The result is Greece.
As the beggar said in "Fiddler On the Roof," "just because you had a bad week, why should I suffer?"?
No, we don't want to become Greece but the 1% Rich want 99% of the wealth.Originally Posted by bobover3
$200 Million in compensation for just five companies that deny insurance claims to the common man? I'll bet those executives never worry about a bill anywhere, let alone a hospital bill.
And those companies are fighting for the "right" to use MORE THAN 20% of their premiums for purposes other than health care.
Wow, I'll bet those rich-bitch union workers making $25 and hour really are overpaid. (in case you can't do the math, $25 an hour is approximately $50,000 a year.)
It happened to Greece because the national bank of Greece used such shoddy accounting procedures and spent itself into debt. The Unions in Greece don't keep the national bank's books. The clerks don't run the banks. The janitors don't run the banks. You want the secretaries to shoulder the burden of their bosses decisions and you want the secretaries to give up pay for their bosses to live the high life.
I'm glad you know what I want, Dave. That saves me the trouble of speaking for myself. You can just attribute opinions to me, and then dispute these opinions of your own invention. I might offer you a gig as my spokesperson. "Bobover3's spokesperson, Dave, told an eager press that Bobover3 favored the proposed bill making it against the law for union members to eat ice cream."
Meanwhile, back on planet earth, the NY papers report that a staff writer for the United Federation of Teachers was fired ... for trying to organize his fellow writers. The writer is suing the union, and has called in the National Labor Relations Board.
Re: Federal Civilian Workers Make Twice What Private Workers Do
May we discuss THIS for a moment?
Do not forget the age discrimination, either. Typically, in a toxic workplace environment the actual firing of ANYONE is for a reason that is not the REAL reason why they are getting fired.
The irony of this situation is not lost on the anti-unionist, but perhaps it could be on the part of the unionist.
Being a past union officer in a past job I can tell you that unionization is a grab for power. When you grab for power in ANY employment situation the management, in this case a union, will defend itself with the firing of the organizer grabbing for power.
It is an old pattern, and it will run its course. If the writer wanted this to go away, he would have simply filed with the NLRB and stopped it there.
However, the very fact that you are reading about this in the media PROVES that the writer, for whatever reason, has went and took his fight to the media.So now the union ain't got no decent writer to write no stuff for them no more.
The object of this was to give the union a black eye. In short, it is an attempt at either union-busting, or takeover by this writer and/or outsiders unknown.
But seriously, folks, why in the HELL do they even NEED a writer? Can't they express themselves without MANGLULATING the English language? This Union's leaders are probably not that smart and/or not that well educated. Otherwise, they'd write their own speeches. The shame is that they are representing TEACHERS who should be educated enough to express their feelings without hiring a professional writer.
Maybe they don't know no no English good enough to write no decent speech, so they took and hired them a educated product of the teaching population that they are supposed to be or be representing.
Or, it is just another of the Conservative movement to destroy public education. That Saint What's-it's-name Academy probably has a bone to pick with its science department over Evolution.
Ever since the Enlightenment period in Europe when religion split from education secularism has been a HUGE thorn in the side of the religious leaders' attempt to control humanity.
My guess would be that Saint What's-it's-name Academy is out to DESTROY the union because the union members will NOT teach a DOGMATIC belief as Science. The writer is a TOOL being used by them. You see, in Charter Schools you DO NOT have to conform to the standards of a REAL public school or the state laws that govern it.
So, Bobover, Dave and company, look DEEPER to see what the REAL conflict here IS about. It is NOT about a union abusing a man who wants to start a union. It is more of a manipulation of the art of Public Relations for the expressed purpose of destroying a union.
This is what the PUBLIC acceptance of CHARTER SCHOOLS brings everywhere it goes. It is not upholding standards of education to the public, it is instead DESTROYING them.
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I think you all need to take a deep breath before you respond again.
River
He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security.
Your representative owes you, not his industry only, but his judgment; and he betrays instead of serving you if he sacrifices it to your opinion.
Edmund Burke
River, what everyone really wants to know is: why have you changed your avatar to a picture of yourself fondling a pussy, and should we contact the ASPCA or the Morals Squad?
Where to begin addressing all the issues.
The Civil Service Retirement System (CSRS) has been in phase out status now for about 25 years. Congress created the Federal Employees Retirement System (FERS) back then. FERS people end up getting Social Security Retirement just like everyone else. We do have a 401k plan that we contribute to and the government matches up to 5 the same as most major corporations.
Unfunded liabilities. A while back, private sector firms were hit with this. At some point in time, there employees are going to retire. And they were told that they needed to keep a reserve to pay for their employees retirement. Several of those firms went thru bankruptcy to get rid of those retirment obligations. Their employees now have to rely on the Pension Benefit Guarantee Board for their retirement benefits. Nice huh. The federal government has a retirement system too. It is called Social Security. It is in such a mess right now because Congress keeps tapping into it to pay for other things. I don't like those unfunded liabilities either. But funding those liabilties at this point in time diverts dollars from the economy at the time they are most needed and puts them in investments that benefit the bankers and wall street.
The federal government is one of, if not the largest, employer in the United States. So if your going to compare federal govenment salaries to private sector salaries, you really should compare them with salaries of Fortune 500 companies because it competes with those companies for its professional employees. Those who say that smaller businesses do not pay good benefits are correct. And if federal employees are forced to accept the benefits offered by those small business, the quality of the federal workforce will suffer. Would you really want to have your tax returns audited by someone making minimum wage and getting no benefits? Would you want that person determining whether you qualify for Social Security?
As I said, the federal government is one of the largest employers in the country. Check out how many Federal employees you have in your locality. Shutting down our salaries will have a severe negative impact on your communities. After all, we are spending that money in our communites.
If you want the economy to get better, you need to pay employees better. Henry Ford had a novel idea. He paid his workers a good salary so that they could afford to buy his cars. They did just that, and our economy grew. The average workers are the ones that are keeping the economy afloat. Worry about loss of jobs, ending unemployment benefits, etc have cause all consumers to cut back on their spending. So right now the economy is kinda moving backwards.
If you want the economy to get better, start taxing the outrageous salaries given to CEOs and upper mangement (anything over $250,000 per yr). They don't spend their money. They invest it. Yes, their investments create jobs ---- in China, India, etc. Their exorbitant salaries add to the cost of consumer goods driving the price of local good up to the point that they can no longer compete with foreign imports.
If you want the economy to get better, take back all the "economic bailout" money given to banks and Wall Street. Invest that money in health care, and jobs. Then maybe private sector pay will get better.
I think it is strange as HELL that we had all that money to give to the Banks and Wall Street, but we are asking everyone else but them to step up to the plate and accept cuts so that our economy can improve. People argue that we can't afford health care reform because it will cost to much. People argue government employees are paid too much. And all the while the Banks and Wall Street sit on their bags of money and smile. They should be asked to take one for the economy first, not the average worker in either the public or private sectors.
And the rich get richer on the backs of the poor, be careful how far you push that, revolutions have started when the middle class is gone and only rich and poor remain.
River
He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security.
Your representative owes you, not his industry only, but his judgment; and he betrays instead of serving you if he sacrifices it to your opinion.
Edmund Burke
I am a Civilan Fedeal Employee in the SF Bay Area. Your quote on Federal Salary is not a fair state of facts. Most Civil Servants are GS-8 and below that do all the work and make under 50K a year nation wide. I wish I made over 120K a year here in the SF Bay Area...and I work my ass off working lots of compt time and free time as well to the government. Don't Bash those whom you not know anything about because GS-8 and below are the Average Civilian Work force that work in all government agencies, from IRS to healthcare workers!!!
Gunnery Sgt.
SF Bay AREA//
Re: Federal Civilian Workers Make Twice What Private Workers Do
Take it easy on Bobover3.
He may have just muffed up and quoted the salaries of the MANAGERS in those government agencies...
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