Federal Civilian Workers Make Twice What Private Workers Do

[bobover3]

USA Today reports that average total compensation of Federal civilian workers is $123,049; state and local workers get $69,913; private workers get $61,051. Federal civilian workers get more than double private workers! Guess who pays the taxes to support the "public sector"?

November's almost here. Vote for conservatives, not just Republicans.

Here's the article:

By Dennis Cauchon, USA TODAY, August 10, 2010

At a time when workers' pay and benefits have stagnated, federal employees' average compensation has grown to more than double what private sector workers earn, a USA TODAY analysis finds.

Federal workers have been awarded bigger average pay and benefit increases than private employees for nine years in a row. The compensation gap between federal and private workers has doubled in the past decade.

Federal civil servants earned average pay and benefits of $123,049 in 2009 while private workers made $61,051 in total compensation, according to the Bureau of Economic Analysis. The data are the latest available.

The federal compensation advantage has grown from $30,415 in 2000 to $61,998 last year.

Public employee unions say the compensation gap reflects the increasingly high level of skill and education required for most federal jobs and the government contracting out lower-paid jobs to the private sector in recent years.

"The data are not useful for a direct public-private pay comparison," says Colleen Kelley, president of the National Treasury Employees Union.

Chris Edwards, a budget analyst at the libertarian Cato Institute, thinks otherwise. "Can't we now all agree that federal workers are overpaid and do something about it?" he asks.

Last week, President Obama ordered a freeze on bonuses for 2,900 political appointees. For the rest of the 2-million-person federal workforce, Obama asked for a 1.4% across-the-board pay hike in 2011, the smallest in more than a decade. Federal workers also would qualify for seniority pay hikes.

Congressional Republicans want to cancel the across-the-board increase in 2011, which would save $2.2 billion.

"Americans are fed up with public employee pay scales far exceeding that in the private sector," says Rep. Eric Cantor, R-Va., the second-ranking Republican in the House.

Sen. Ted Kaufman, D-Del., says a pay freeze would unfairly scapegoat federal workers without addressing real budget problems.

What the data show:

•Benefits. Federal workers received average benefits worth $41,791 in 2009. Most of this was the government's contribution to pensions. Employees contributed an additional $10,569.

•Pay. The average federal salary has grown 33% faster than inflation since 2000. USA TODAY reported in March that the federal government pays an average of 20% more than private firms for comparable occupations. The analysis did not consider differences in experience and education.

•Total compensation. Federal compensation has grown 36.9% since 2000 after adjusting for inflation, compared with 8.8% for private workers.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/econom...pay10_ST_N.htm

[moi621]

Bob3 for creating this thread.

Remember, the good ole days when government employees were paid less
but made up for it with job security and benefits?

Now they have the, benefits and a competitive to great salary too.
Moi
Still missing the '50's,
even Mad Men is currently, 1964

[A-1]

yeah, moi, missing the 50's where Eisenhower had the top federal income tax rates at 91%, too? Too bad you have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA for what you are asking ...

************************************************** *****

AND THIS IS NEWS?!???

If YOU think that Obama started this you are full of PP!

How in the hell did you think that "PRIVATE CONTRACTORS" like HALIBURTON and the like got so RICH? B-2 Bombers at 2 BILLION a copy was one way...

Now Bastard Lobbyists like that ASSHOLE Dan Coats are running on the Republican ticket for office, (in his case, Senate).

But another way to look at this is that the WORSHIPFUL... "Private Sector" hires second-rate workers at starvation wages because it can and EXPORTS labor to foreign countries whenever possible to MAXIMIZE PROFITS. This drives the prevailing wages that they AVERAGE OUT down so that PROPAGANDA pieces like this are possible.

The Federal Government MAKES NO PROFITS. GET IT?

You know, Bobover and moi, I DO NOT UNDERSTAND what it is about the Republican party and the rape of the working man that you do not understand.

It must be that YOU were (or are) either in management or part of the non-working Rich living off the fruit of the labor of the WORKING CLASS.

BUT I DO AGREE THAT WE NEED TO VOTE FOR CONSERVATIVES, BUT NOT AT THE EXPENSE OF STARVING THE COMMON PERSON IN AMERICA TO DEATH. WE NEED OBAMA'S PROGRAMS TO GET BACK ON OUR FEET. THAT TRANSLATES TO DEMOCRAT, WITH A FEW NOTABLE EXCEPTIONS LIKE SENATOR RICHARD LUGAR (R) INDIANA.

THIS is the kind of Fucking Shit the Private sector puts out under Government contracts...

Stealth expert guilty of selling secrets to China

By MARK NIESSE (AP) – 17 hours ago

HONOLULU — A former B-2 bomber engineer who marketed and sold his stealth expertise to China is facing life in a federal prison following his conviction for bartering U.S. military secrets.

Noshir Gowadia, 66, was found guilty Monday on charges that he designed a cruise missile component for China and pocketed at least $110,000, which he allegedly used to help pay a $15,000-a-month mortgage on a multimillion-dollar oceanview home he built on Maui's north shore.

Prosecutors said Gowadia revealed classified information to foreign powers at least twice: during a PowerPoint presentation on his cruise missile technology, and when he showed the technology's effectiveness by comparing it to American air-to-air missiles.

"This case was unique in that we litigated know-how, the very concept of exporting your knowledge base that you derive, in whole or in part, from your activities working in United States classified programs," Assistant U.S. Attorney Ken Sorenson said. "If you can take that and go sell it or market yourself on an international stage in secrecy to other governments and not suffer criminal sanctions for it, then we're in trouble."

Gowadia's defense attorneys argued during the nearly four-month trial that while it's true he gave China the design for the cruise missile part, he based his work on unclassified, publicly available information. Gowadia plans to appeal.

"Mr. Gowadia is obviously disappointed with the verdict. He felt that he hadn't committed a crime," said his attorney, Birney Bervar.

Gowadia, who has been in federal custody since October 2005, was convicted on 14 of 17 counts, including conspiracy, violating the arms export control act, tax evasion and money laundering. He was acquitted on charges of knowingly communicating national defense information. He will be sentenced in November.

The decision came after more than six days of deliberations at a federal court in Honolulu.

"Mr. Gowadia provided some of our country's most sensitive weapons-related designs to the Chinese government for money. Today, he is being held accountable for his actions," said Assistant Attorney General David Kris. "This prosecution should serve as a warning to others who would compromise our nation's military secrets for profit."

Gowadia helped design the propulsion system for the B-2 bomber when he worked at Northrop Corp., now known as Northrop Grumman Corp., between 1968 and 1986.

Prosecutors argued Gowadia helped China design a cruise missile exhaust nozzle that would give off less heat, allowing the cruise missile to evade infrared radar detection and U.S. heat-seeking missiles.

They said Gowadia traveled to China between 2003 and 2005 while designing the cruise missile and used e-mail to arrange payment for his work.

Prosecutors also charged Gowadia with attempting to sell classified stealth technology to the Swiss government and businesses in Israel and Germany.

Born in India, Gowadia moved to the U.S. for postgraduate work in the 1960s and became a U.S. citizen about a decade later. He retired from Northrop for health reasons in 1986, two years before the B-2 made its public debut. He moved to Maui in 1999.

The case is one of a series of major prosecutions targeting alleged Chinese spying on the U.S.

In March, Chinese-born engineer Dongfan "Greg" Chung was sentenced to more than 15 years in prison after he was convicted of six counts of economic espionage and other federal charges.

Investigators learned about Chung while probing Chi Mak, a defense contractor engineer convicted in 2007 of conspiracy to export U.S. defense technology to China. Mak was sentenced to 24 years in prison in 2008.

Copyright © 2010 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.

PROPAGANDA PIECE BELOW....

USA Today reports that average total compensation of Federal civilian workers is $123,049; state and local workers get $69,913; private workers get $61,051. Federal civilian workers get more than double private workers! Guess who pays the taxes to support the "public sector"?

November's almost here. Vote for conservatives, not just Republicans.

Here's the article:

By Dennis Cauchon, USA TODAY, August 10, 2010

At a time when workers' pay and benefits have stagnated, federal employees' average compensation has grown to more than double what private sector workers earn, a USA TODAY analysis finds.

Federal workers have been awarded bigger average pay and benefit increases than private employees for nine years in a row. The compensation gap between federal and private workers has doubled in the past decade.

Federal civil servants earned average pay and benefits of $123,049 in 2009 while private workers made $61,051 in total compensation, according to the Bureau of Economic Analysis. The data are the latest available.

The federal compensation advantage has grown from $30,415 in 2000 to $61,998 last year.

Public employee unions say the compensation gap reflects the increasingly high level of skill and education required for most federal jobs and the government contracting out lower-paid jobs to the private sector in recent years.

"The data are not useful for a direct public-private pay comparison," says Colleen Kelley, president of the National Treasury Employees Union.

Chris Edwards, a budget analyst at the libertarian Cato Institute, thinks otherwise. "Can't we now all agree that federal workers are overpaid and do something about it?" he asks.

Last week, President Obama ordered a freeze on bonuses for 2,900 political appointees. For the rest of the 2-million-person federal workforce, Obama asked for a 1.4% across-the-board pay hike in 2011, the smallest in more than a decade. Federal workers also would qualify for seniority pay hikes.

Congressional Republicans want to cancel the across-the-board increase in 2011, which would save $2.2 billion.

"Americans are fed up with public employee pay scales far exceeding that in the private sector," says Rep. Eric Cantor, R-Va., the second-ranking Republican in the House.

Sen. Ted Kaufman, D-Del., says a pay freeze would unfairly scapegoat federal workers without addressing real budget problems.

What the data show:

•Benefits. Federal workers received average benefits worth $41,791 in 2009. Most of this was the government's contribution to pensions. Employees contributed an additional $10,569.

•Pay. The average federal salary has grown 33% faster than inflation since 2000. USA TODAY reported in March that the federal government pays an average of 20% more than private firms for comparable occupations. The analysis did not consider differences in experience and education.

•Total compensation. Federal compensation has grown 36.9% since 2000 after adjusting for inflation, compared with 8.8% for private workers.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/econom...pay10_ST_N.htm

[moi621]

A-1
Look at the percent of home ownership.
Even before the recent melt down.
A middle class owning their own home, as in the '50's,
is above any other consideration of middle class satisfaction in .

Sure Ike and Dulles did bad things, like support Banana Republics,
forcibly to support their stock in American Fruit / Chaquita Banana.
House of UnAmerican Activities, ala Oppenheimer and Hollywood. + +

Whatever the faults of the '50's, it rates as the high water mark when
a hardworking person could own a home,
support his stay at home wife,
and earn a real private pension, etc.
(PC for fifties, no comment please ref. wife)

Moi
BTW, I see the end of the '50's as November 1963.
All down hill for "common working folk", since that execution of democracy.


Apologies to off topicness, but, in the fifties, government workers had a fair place and some high earners even took a charitable hit to, work for an administration.

[A-1]

A-1
Look at the percent of home ownership.
Even before the recent melt down.
A middle class owning their own home, as in the '50's,
is above any other consideration of middle class satisfaction in .

Sure Ike and Dulles did bad things, like support Banana Republics,
forcibly to support their stock in American Fruit / Chaquita Banana.
House of UnAmerican Activities, ala Oppenheimer and Hollywood. + +

Whatever the faults of the '50's, it rates as the high water mark when
a hardworking person could own a home,
support his stay at home wife,
and earn a real private pension, etc.
(PC for fifties, no comment please ref. wife)

Moi
BTW, I see the end of the '50's as November 1963.
All down hill for "common working folk", since that execution of democracy.


Apologies to off topicness, but, in the fifties, government workers had a fair place and some high earners even took a charitable hit to, work for an administration.

I am not in disagreement with what you have said here. However, Kennedy as you know started the stimulation of private enterprise by income tax reduction. This DOES work to an extent. However, EVERYTHING depends on how profits are invested.

High tax rates to businesses necessitates reinvestment of profits in companies. Lower business tax rates fuels speculation, which is NOT a bad thing, but in an INTERNATIONAL economy, (read NEW WORLD ORDER), opens up investments from America into foreign markets.

The result of this being that eventually America SHARES its resources or rather LOSES it to foreign speculators.

So, YES, the 1950's WERE a good time as you point out, but only for the average American. For the money people the more markets to work, the more money there is to be made, and so they make it, and they DO NOT care about their countrymen. You see, in a New World Order, countries do not exist except geographically.

Mark MY words. The Mexicans may be coming to America to work, but it will not be long until SIGNIFICANT numbers of Americans will be going to Mexico to retire. The cost of living is but a fraction of what it is in the USA.

If Mexico develops a fertile place for economic development, it will take off as soon as the Mexican drug cartels wise up and figure out that they can make more money in a world economy by investment than by smuggling drugs.

Of course, the Women's equality movement was and is a good thing, but it was used as so many good and charitable organizations are.

Oh, and another thing.

Alan Dulles knew more about the Kennedy assassination that WE will ever know.

[Free to be ME]

A-1 dont start about something you know nothing about the B-2 and other aircraft. The cost comes from the volume just like cars. If you build a hand ful the per unit cost is HUGE look at a Bugatti Veryon, 120 a year built by hand cost over 1 million each , cost of a Focus million built 20 k or so. Road and track back in the 70's decided to build a Pinto from buying the parts and assembling itself the cost was triple the sticker price in the end. The cost of design, prototype , tool making , material gathering ETC. is spread over the whole run. Build a few the cost to recoupe all those outlays before seeing dime one of a return is very high. For example if the F-22 had not been delayed and purchased in the numbers neede to replace the aging F-15 design the cost was 15 million per plane less then an airliner about the same as an F-15 now with the delays and small number its up to 40 million all due to costs incured in again getting materials tools etc. A bigger tax waster is FEMA look at New orlens and the Gulf please get a grip they waste far more and create no jobs. At least the F-22 and B-2 and NASA create jobs across the country.

[Free to be ME]

By the way since when do you save an economy by wild spending? Didnt work for Jimmy Carter , didn't work for Bush SR. and it sure isn't working for Obama lose 131,000 jobs and make 65,000 in a month is still a 66,000 jobs lost period. I dont care how you spin it until you create jobs equal to or more then the numbers lost in a period is a net job and tax revenue loss PERIOD!

[Dave]

By the way since when do you save an economy by wild spending? Didnt work for Jimmy Carter , didn't work for Bush SR. and it sure isn't working for Obama lose 131,000 jobs and make 65,000 in a month is still a 66,000 jobs lost period. I dont care how you spin it until you create jobs equal to or more then the numbers lost in a period is a net job and tax revenue loss PERIOD!

And it didn't work for GW Bush.
However, we did get deficit reduction under Bill Clinton.

And think about what you are saying, G HW Bush lost his base because he increased taxes and balanced his budgets to some extent. A one term president is nothing "to sneeze at" Or to ignore. Especially, when the base hates GHW Bush for raising their taxes and balancing the budget.

And for facts, the last six months of GW Bush's administration, job loss was over 750,000 jobs a month.

[moi621]

Truman.
Carter
Bush Sr.
Obama
all got stuck with the "tab" for the previously started wars as effected their 'evaluation' as good administrations with the, economy.
Eisenhower, like Clinton got to ride the times when previous Presidents took the economic, hit.
Y'think?
The playing field was not level for economic comparisons.
Moi
Still missing the '50's when government / tax supported workers made less then their private counter parts but, had benefits and security.
just to stay on topic

[Dave]

Gee, MOI, your history is a bit off kilter...

G HW Bush (Bush Sr.) did not inherit a war. He had to fight one when Iraq invaded Kuwait but that was limited to driving the iraqi's out of Kuwait.

Reagan didn't fight a war while he was president. He had that little incursion into the Falklands but that could hardly be called a war.

And Clinton had to intervene in the Balkans and the former Yugoslav region.

[transward]

Gee, MOI, your history is a bit off kilter...

Reagan didn't fight a war while he was president. He had that little incursion into the Falklands but that could hardly be called a war. ...

You're a bit confused on this one. Margaret Thatcher and the British fought the Falkland War. (It's a British dependent territory.)

Reagan invaded Grenada, an island of about 100,000.

On the bright side they are both islands & both wars were "Much Ado About Nothing."

Transward

[Riverwind]

I am so glad thats cleared up.

River

[Dave]

You're a bit confused on this one. Margaret Thatcher and the British fought the Falkland War. (It's a British dependent territory.)

Reagan invaded Grenada, an island of about 100,000.

On the bright side they are both islands & both wars were "Much Ado About Nothing."

Transward

ooooops! Got that one wrong. I knew it was an island and I trusted my memory.
The point was that Reagan didn't have a big war and he should have been added to a list that included Ike and Clinton.

[A-1]

ooooops! Got that one wrong. I knew it was an island and I trusted my memory.
The point was that Reagan didn't have a big war and he should have been added to a list that included Ike and Clinton.

Hmmm,

Didn't Reagan win the COLD WAR?

...indeed, that WAS a war, A BIG WAR, it had went on since the end of WWII, and we spent money like water to win it, too.

...then after we won it we had to go in and provide aid to the Soviet Union to keep track of their NUKES and so forth. Paid for winning it TWICE, we did...

[Dave]

...
...then after we won it we had to go in and provide aid to the Soviet Union to keep track of their NUKES and so forth. Paid for winning it TWICE, we did..

Money well spent to keep nuclear weapons out of the hands of irresponsible people. I know more about this than I can say. Just bear in mind that the Department of Energy handled some of the secret dealings to keep nuclear materials and weapons under lock and key. This was cheap for the price and money well spent.